I'm about to give up...

[Lilith]

Ok, first off I'm not a mother. I'm 28 years old dating a 27 yr old with a 5 year old daughter. I was excited to have a kid in my life since I suffer from PCOS and have not been able to have my own children. In the last year I have seriously reconsidered motherhood.

The girl is just different from any other children I have been around. She refused to be taught anything, give up before she starts something, cries all the time over something so small as she dropped her stuffed animal, lies about everything even if its nothing she would get in trouble over (adult like lies not something I have seen a child making up), lack of attention to anything for more than 3-5 minutes, refusing to clean up her mess (i.e. Legos she just dumped),destroying things around the house (digging out my drywall with a plastic plate, coloring on my trim, writing on her toys, plugging up sinks with toilet paper, pulling the buds off my pussy willow branches, etc), scared of the dark but was not before, peeing the bed EVERY night and EVERY nap (even though we have her pee before bedtime-9 pm and wake her up when we go to bed and cut off liquids at 6 or 7 pm), bullying my 3 cats and 2 dogs, back talking and telling us "no", calling people ugly and fat and stupid (but not around us - we use soap!), telling her dad that she does not love him anymore (straight faced and sometimes is not even when she is in trouble), says "I love you" after every thing you say when she is in trouble to make you feel bad (not sure who that works on but not me or her dad). I just can't handle this. And when I bring it up to my boyfriend he thinks its normal.... and so does her mother and both sets of grandparents. Everyone on my side of the family that has met her or heard about her thinks there is something wrong. They are thinking ADHD or trauma from her parents divorce or a lack or attention, or she has a developmental delay.

When we have her (every Wedneday-Friday and also every other weekend) we try and take her places, she helps me cook and clean, we play board games, get out the bubbles and play with sidewalk chalk, etc. The minute we turn our backs she is doing something wrong. Discipline is not seeming to work either. We have tried time-outs, wall-sits for time out (her father is in the Army), taking away privileges, Star Charts (which she misbehaves right after she get the last star and on our way to the Bouncy Place or toy store or whatever) etc. She does not play with toys at all so its hard to ground her from something because she does not care for anything enough. I thought children her age were suppose to be playing house and with Barbies and stuff. We have told her how disappointed we are in her decisions and choices when she does something wrong and she only shows emotion for about 30 seconds and then it seems like all is forgotten.

Also she shows no interest in stuff like dolls, toys, play-doe, coloring, etc. The only thing she seems to be interested in is the TV and board games. They at least hold her attention for 10-15 mins. Is that normal? I remember playing outside, with dolls, toy horses, etc.

As of this June my roommates leases are up and she will getting her own room. I am really worried what will happen then. I am also adding on a sunroom to the back of the house which was suppose to be partly her playroom & my hobby room. I am afraid that as soon as she is left alone in her own room she will be destroying something else. I have talked to my boyfriend about that and he thinks she will be fine. But I can't trust her when she is in the living room for 5 minutes how am I suppose to trust her on the other side of the house.

I am hoping that there is someone else out there that has had similar problems and can give me some advice. At this point his daughter is coming between us. I am about to give up on her and I know that he will resent her slightly if we were to break up over her.

[ccmommy]

First off let me say that this little girl word for WORD sounds like my step son about a year ago. Right after his Dad and I moved in together. The only difference in the situation is that we have him full time and his mom has him every other weekend.

It's tough. Especially when your gut reaction is to just do what OUR mothers would have done and smack her, right? That behavior would NOT have been tolerated in OUR homes. (We're roughly the same age, and if your mama was anything at all like my mama I would have had the taste slapped out of my mouth for saying "no." Period.)

But, it's a different world, and she's a different kid who, whether her parents and grandparents want to admit it or not HAS been traumatized.

1) Get her in counseling. Period. She will resist and fight it but lord help you next year when she starts REAL school if you don't. We learned that with my son in Kindergarten when other children said he was "the mean boy," because he would kick spit and hit to get his way. Despite what her parents think, she might just need a third party where there are NO consequences to speak her mind. It will be a good way for all of you to find out what she really thinks about the divorce, you, and if there are any "outside" influences on her behavoir. (For instance, a mother who may have her believing she can do whatever she wants at your house...)

2) Your rules are good. I have the same problem with my son with the "how do you take something away when she doesn't care about anything." Oh trust me...there is always something. And with these independant boy the ONLY thing that has shown results with him are taking away his CHOICES. Start her out with 2 or 3. The more she misbehaves, remove a choice.

Ex.: You can a) quit crying and pick up your toys and you and I can play a game b) you can quit crying and I will help you pick up your toys and we will play a game after a 5 minute time out with good behavior. c) You can continue to cry and Not pick up your toys and I will take away said toys, there will be no game, and you can have a ten minute time out!

Make choice B sound the best. You both get a little of what you want. BUT it hinges on the five minute time out and the REWARD for behaving well after GOOD behavior.

It's tough though, because she sounds manipulative like my son (the small wonder of grown up lies.) I'd also recommend having her IQ tested because I'm willing to bet that is one smart cookie in there!



Most important thing? This ALL hinges on her Dad. If he refuses to acknowledge the problem you are going to need to bring in reinforcements, possibly drastic measures to make him SEE it. If you have any friends with kids, have them all over for a backyard bbq and play date and let him watch her interact. Ten bucks within five minutes you have a screaming mess on your hands, but he will KNOW that what she is displaying is NOT normal behavior. (Be sure to warn your friends about her before exposing their kids. If they won't play along use THAT to your advantage. Say "Well honey, I tried to invite the Wilsons and their kids but they heard through the daycare grapevine that Sally doesn't play nice and didn't want to come..." )

Chances are, he's going to say "well that's their problem." (Guess what, been there done that LOL) But when the notes start coming home from school, and parents at daycare start to complain...they will see it. No one thought anything was wrong with my son until he set a record for trips to see the principal in Kindergarten and First Grade and I only WISH I was kidding...


If you love this man, and I suspect you do, you have to stick it out. I love my husband and I love my stepson and that love did NOT happen overnight. He is a pain in the butt, but most kids are. I just have to take it day by day and try not to lose too much hair.

I know that you must have very badly wanted children or you wouldn't have tolerated her this long. :-) So think of her as a unique packaged challenge that you have to break through. She is going to test you because as far as she is concerned your are the devil that keeps mommy and daddy from living together, and nothing is going to change that but time sweetpea.

Trust me, hang in there, be consistent, be patient, and be LOVING. You will get through to her eventually. My lil one is still a work in progress but I wake up every day reminding myself that he is a CHILD, he is what he has been MADE to be, and at this tender age, a lack of nuture can overpower anything we might think to be "natural."


I hope this helps, and even if it doesn't, you have a sympathetic ear in me just to vent because I'm in the same position :-)

[MommaC]

Well, I would would dare say she's within the REALM of normal (i.e., I don't think you need to call the priest for an exorcism just yet! ;) ). She does seem to have some pretty serious issues, so I'm not totally discounting your concerns.

As far as play.... Don't rely on the TV. That's probably part of the source of the problem (with attention AND play). Kids these days don't learn to play. With the crafts and pretend play (and anything else that seems to not interest her or hold her attention), participate with her. Teach her how to do those things. Show her they're fun. Show Daddy or tell Daddy what you guys did. His approval and pride may go a long way.

As far as discipline.... Pick a tactic and be consistent...even when you think it's not working. The books I bow to are:
"How to Get the Best From Your Children" by Jo Frost (Supernanny)
"Don't Make Me Count to Three" by Ginger Plowman

Also, if there's any way her lifestyle could be MORE stable, that I'm sure would be helpful. To live here for a few days then there for a few days can feel really disconcerting, especially for a kiddo. She doesn't know what's going on from day to day...where she'll be, what she'll do, etc. Chances are the expecations are different in each environment. She might have feelings of insecurity...where does she belong, who really wants her, etc. Lavish love on her. Help her know what to expect.

I was a very strong-willed child. No matter if she has a stronger will than you or not, she must BELIEVE you have a stronger will. Play the part. Once they get the idea that they can't wear you down and you're not giving up, they start to come around (IF there's a basis for a loving relationship in place). I also enjoy "The Strong-Willed Child" by James Dobson.

Hopefully SOME of that is a bit helpful--I wish you all the best!

[c_helwig89]

Our 6 year old niece is kinda the same way. She used to pick on the animals (she loves them, just a little too much) and it got to the point where she would throw the cats over her shoulder and swing them around "playing." We told her she was going to hurt them and she didn't believe us. Then she tried to teach a kitten to swim in her kiddie pool, and let's say that didn't go very well... so she eventually left the animals alone.

However, the drawing on the walls.... she LOVES Sharpies. and she can find them, no matter where we hide them. One day, she got on and colored on Nate's "Riddick" DVD case, the wall, the computer mouse, colored her nails black, colored on herself, colored on her cousin, colored on her TV... her baby dolls, her shoes, her aunt's desk & stool... just everything. So we made her get out her piggy bank and get a dollar out (It was 4 quarters and it was just the most horrible thing we ever did to her... lol) and took her to the store and made her get a Magic Eraser. She doesn't like going out in public, or people, so this was almost a punishment in herself. We made her tell the lady she had colored on the walls and had to clean it. We then took her home and made her apologize to everyone for everything of theirs she had colored on. (i.e. Uncle Nate I'm sorry for coloring on Riddick over the names. Aunt Miranda I'm sorry for coloring on your desk. Mamaw, I'm sorry for coloring on the wall and my clothes...etc)
We didn't end up making her clean it...
But the last thing we did was make her take a bath (Oh, no!) and scrub it off of her.


When I was young, I stole a pack of gum from Meijer and my mom made me get money from my piggy bank and take it to the lady at Customer Service and tell her I had stolen a pack of Zebra gum and here was the money for it and I was very sorry.


I guess what I'm getting to is that since the girl is acting up at home, get her to realize it in public. For instance... when she wets the bed, make her get some money out of her piggy bank (or hide money under her bed so that she thinks it's hers) and take her to the store to buy pull ups or undies or something and make her "pay" for them. I wouldn't suggest making her tell the clerk she wets the bed because that's different for coloring on the walls. But hopefully after a couple times, she will get the point.