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DrPaterno
04-30-2009, 08:57 AM
by Dr. Dathan Paterno
http://drpaterno.blogspot.com/2009/04/go-to-time-outof-car.html

Many of you have heard about Madlyn Primoff, the mother of two bickering girls, 12 and 10, who were kicked out of the car and told to walk home when the bickering wouldn’t stop. Even though the mother drove around the block and came back for the girls, she was later arrested for child endangerment. Quite a number of parents have been debating this issue, with most of the debated surrounding whether it was an appropriate consequence.

I’m not in favor of her decision.

Before I criticize Mrs. Primoff’s parenting, let me confess that I have great sympathy for her. I will give Mrs. Primoff the benefit of the doubt in presuming that her children’s behavior was ridiculous and not just mildly annoying. I am completely in favor of tough parenting. This includes having no tolerance for ridiculous behavior. So she was right to use tough discipline to shape their behavior.

However, kicking the girls out of the car was unwise for two reasons.

First, kicking a 10 or 12-year-old girl out of a car and expecting her to walk home a mile or more in a suburban neighborhood is not reasonably safe. Sure, there are some ten and twelve-year-old girls who are independent enough to walk a mile or even more in safe neighborhoods. But most aren’t. If the children were 14 and 16, I wouldn’t be saying this (unless of course the neighborhood were notoriously dangerous). And if it were two blocks, I might be persuaded to let it slide. But in this day and age, I just don’t trust the world enough to allow two pre-teen girls to walk far without a chaperone.

My second problem with her decision is that she likely made it impulsively. I highly doubt that she and her husband had had a family meeting with the children and informed them that bickering in the car would result in being kicked out. Rather, this punishment was made off-the-cuff, in a rage, and without much thought of the consequence. This kind of parenting scares children and invalidates that parent’s authority and trustworthiness.

Again, I’m all for tough parenting with consequences that induce discomfort or pain. But consequences must be reasonably safe; they must also be made calmly with pre-thought and understanding of the possible consequences.

As always, let me know what you think! If you don’t like her decision either, let me know what you think would be a better consequence for bickering in the car.

cay8099
04-30-2009, 09:50 AM
I don't think she endangered those girls. I see so many parents in our town who let their kids go where ever they want without supervison, and these children are younger than 10. If they were that close to home the mother most likely knew the neighborhood, and knew that they would be reasonably safe. Considering the way things are going these days those girls are no more safe at school or in their own back yard. It's not like she kicked them out in ghettoland, Detroit.

j-love
04-30-2009, 02:02 PM
I agree with Cay. I don't think she should have been arrested. My mother did this to my siblings and I plenty of times growing up. (Sometimes she wouldn't come back!)

Lilypad
04-30-2009, 02:47 PM
I don't think she should have been necessarily arrested, but I do think it was unwise. We can all agree that children are trying and I agree with Cay that these days, you never know where danger is lurking.

However, I would not want to be the one who put my child in danger should something happen to them. Leaving them on a street corner when you don't know who or what is there is not wise. If something had happened to either of them, she would never forgive herself. She was lucky it was a kind person that approached her 10 year old and bought her ice cream and took her to the police station. It could have been a much different scenario. And I for one, would not want to have that on my conscience as a mother who has sworn to protect her children at all costs.

freckles
05-01-2009, 01:12 AM
I know you stated "child endangerment" but how is dropping your kids off on a street against the law, mad at them or not? Is there an exact law for this.

I am genuinely curious to know the answer and am not being sarcastic at all.

Just FYI-I dont run to my husband everytime i need to discipline, I am the parent and that makes me capable of, and have the right to, make disciplining decisions. I am not saying NEVER. I do communicate with my hubby on alot of matters. Because I think "impulsive" may have NOT been the best word. Perhaps "irrational" fits better. Administering punishment sometimes is impulsive.....impulsive meaning swift. Does this make sense? But anyway......

Lilypad
05-01-2009, 09:33 AM
Freckles:

This is the definition of child endangerment (which is an offense):
A person who is the parent, guardian, or person having custody or control over a child or a minor under the age of eighteen with a mental or physical disability, or a person who is a member of the household in which a child or such a minor resides, commits child endangerment when the person does knowingly acts in a manner that creates a substantial risk to a child or minor's physical, mental or emotional health or safety.

So, basically, the police believe she placed her children in danger by dropping them off as a punishment.

KayLady
05-01-2009, 12:45 PM
I agree with cay and j - how do we know she doesn't already let them walk or ride their bikes on a daily basis to or beyond the place where she dropped them off? I often see kids this age who live on my street a few miles down the street at the convenience store by themselves.
Recent news stories show that kids are in more danger at a neighbor's or relative's house.
J-love - plenty of times? I would have learned my lesson the first time . . . :)

BusyMommy3
05-01-2009, 10:34 PM
I guess it would just depend on where this all took place. I'm actually kind of liking the idea! But I'm in a small community where I wouldn't have the same worries as a larger city. And even then I'd probably circle the block or drive behind them (depending on the age). It would be no different than letting them ride their bike out of your sight or anymore dangerous than letting them go to the movies or bowling... But I guess those aren't punishments so that's okay?

And I agree with freckles... I don't need to consult anyone before I discipline my children! We are on the same basic moral page, which I would hope most parents are, so we rarely dissagree on disciplining issues.

Mikey_BKK
05-04-2009, 05:31 AM
Depends totally on how it was done and the mental state of the mother when she did it. If she analyzed the situation and took a deliberate decision after considering neighbour hood and distance to home etc, and explained to her girls why she did it, then she should not have been arrested, absolutely not. If she did it in anger, without considering the above, and decided to drive around the block to pick them up first after she had kicked them out, then I don’t mind actually.
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I would happily run out and buy the strongest cigarettes I could find and then say - Let’s have a smoke together to my teenage daughter if she came and told me that she wanted to try it. Don’t have a teenage daughter yet so it’s not going to happen but I think that it is a good example to discuss…
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I would do it to show that I appreciate the trust she shows me and to bond with her, and of course because I know that they would taste so horrible that we would happily agree that starting to smoke is a very bad idea after the smoke. Should I be arrested for doing that?
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Michael

amaranta
05-04-2009, 10:28 AM
i dont think that she should have got arrested. she drove around the block and kept her eye on the girls. she was teaching the girls dicipline and i see nothing wrong with that. now if she would of drove off and waited at home for the girls then it would of been a diffrent story...

Lilypad
05-04-2009, 01:12 PM
I agree that it can be an effective lesson if done safely. I know I "ran away" when I was 9 or 10 and Mom told me to go ahead. I packed my bag and away I went...for about 3 blocks...with my mother watching me the whole time. I then decided I should go home.

However, from what I understand she drove off and left the kids. The 12 year old ran after the car and the mother let her back in. She left the 10 year old there! She then went home and when the 10 year old didn't show up, she called the police and reported her missing!!! This is where I am wth?? She is missing because you let her out of the car and drove off!! Even if she drove around the block and she was gone, it can happen that quickly. When she called the police, they told her the young girl was at the police station.

I agree with Mikey in that if it is done with careful consideration, it can be effective.

freckles
05-04-2009, 06:26 PM
Lily pad-Thanks for the child endangerment definition.

I personally would NEVER do this to my kids.

Mikey_BKK
05-05-2009, 10:51 PM
The most difficult challenge in our lives as parents is to always stay calm and levelheaded when dealing with our kids. Not possible of course :) But it helps a lot that we really try
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I would never do this to my kid, it would destroy her trust in me, there are better ways
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Michael
Father of Idea, the good idea