I need a woman's opinion about marriage

[junx0r]

I am a single guy, 30, successful career, and marriage just looks like a scary proposition these days. I am not against it, I want to be married one day, but I want to get your opinions about my idea of marriage.

- I want a 1950s type of marriage, where the man is the man, and the woman is the woman. What I mean by that is that I want to be the one bringing in the dough, my wife is free to work or not work. It's up to her, as long as I come home to a home cooked meal at the end of the day.

- I make enough money for both of us to be reasonably comfortable. If I wanted to share a microwave dinner with someone, I'd get a roommate, not a wife.

- I want my wife to feel that the money I make is ours equally, in other words she should spend freely because it's hers as much as mine. She doesn't need my permission to do stuff or buy stuff.

- The chores I will do around the house are the things that a man does, like fixing stuff, taking the garbage out, building stuff. Laundry, cooking, dishes, etc. are usually things I will not do. Otherwise I might as well hire a sexy maid and kill two birds with one stone.

- I am not against having kids, but she will be the one dealing with them most of the time. That simply the way of the world. I am a man, I am wired to hunt and kill, not nurse a baby. Blame nature.

- We will never own a minivan. If you need a big car, get an SUV. We cannot own a car that a man cannot drive without losing his dignity.

- I take care of my body, and so should you. I go to the gym 4 times a week. I do not smoke, drink, or do drugs. Letting yourself go is disrespectful to me and to yourself.

- We must have at least one minor fight per week, and one major fight every 6 months. This helps release tension and rekindle the fire. Besides, makeup sex just rules.

- Do not ask me where I was, track me down, keep tabs on me, or other such annoying behavior. I am allowed to hang out with my friends within reason, meaning as long as I am considerate, and you don't feel abandoned.

- I am aware of my appearance and try to dress well, I try to look sharp all the time, and so should you.

- I rarely watch sports or play video games. If you want a man who does, go marry a man-child.

- I am not a wuss (also known as a "progressive man"). Most married guys I know are, and are unaware that their wives despise them for not having a spine. Anyway, this is a complicated subject.

- Being hot gets boring after a while. You must have a vibrant personality.

That's pretty much it. Am I being unreasonable?

(I don't mean to offend anyone, this is simply what I want. Feel free to agree or disagree as long as it's a constructive opinion.)

[kelly23]

I think you should give Doc Brown a call and start working on your flux capacitor for your Delorean, because that is the only way you will get everything on your wish list. Here is my opinion on your opinions:

Your first 3 points are all right. Make sure that your wife knows how to cook and is willing to cook for you every night. I hope that you are willing to cook once in a while.

You need to be willing to help out with other chores once in a while. It won't kill you.

If you want to have kids, you need to be willing to help out as much as possible. You may not be able to nurse a baby, but you can hold a bottle, see what I mean? Just because men are "wired" a certain way does not excuse them from being a parent. My dad pulled this crap and he and my mom do not have a happy marriage and this is a major reason why. This will lead to a lot of resentment if you are not willing to do your share.

There is nothing wrong with a guy driving a minivan, but if you want an SUV, fine.

Women don't always "let themselves go." Having a baby is putting your body through major changes and it is never the same. I have a pooch that is not going to go away unless I get a tummy tuck. If you were my husband and you gave me **** about it, I'd smack the **** out of you. Not everyone loses baby weight quickly and you need to be understanding. Are you willing to give your wife some alone time to go to the gym? Would you be willing to watch the kids? I don't think you would. What if she wants to go to the gym but you don't have your home cooked meal?

I don't agree with the fighting at all. I hate fighting. You don't need to fight to have a good marriage or good sex. If you want to rekindle the fire, take a vacation, don't piss me off because we haven't had our "major fight" yet.

Your wife has every right to call and see where you are. My husband and I call each other for things such as, Are you on your way, When can I expect you? If one of us is taking too long, it could mean we got in an accident or something. It's just making sure that nothing is wrong. You probably mean you don't want someone really clingy who calls every 5 minutes.

If you want your wife to dress a certain way, buy her the clothes. You sort of sound like you are looking for a trophy wife or something. Also, being a mom, we can't look sharp all the time. Not when the kid has thrown up on us, and we have been up all night because they didn't sleep well, and haven't been able to get a shower yet because you think we should be dealing with the kid most of the time.

If you don't like sports and video games, that's fine. What do you like?

I don't know what a "progressive man" is and am curious to find out. What is it? I can't comment since I don't know.

Overall, I think you have unrealistic standards and need to reevaluate a bit. I don't think you are prepared for the give and take, and compromise that goes into a marriage and kids. I have been married for 3 years and have 2 kids. Let me know what you think about what I wrote.

[junx0r]

Hey Kelly,

Thanks for your reply. You haven't really said anything unreasonable. I think we're pretty close.

Helping out with the kids occasionally I can deal with, when mom is sick and tired and needs to get away for a few hours, go to the mall or spa. I don't like the idea of having a nanny or a babysitter, so I'd rather do it myself.

The minivan is just a guy thing, women wouldn't understand. It's just not "manly".

Pregnancy takes a toll on the body, and that's the price you pay. Letting herself go means using the pregnancy as an excuse to turn into a wildebeest. (Note: wildebeests get a bad rap; they're actually beautiful, slender animals.)

The dressing part: just because she had a baby, doesn't mean she has to be in sweatpants all the time. It's about common sense, and not forgetting that dad still exists.

When I say fighting, I don't mean a UFC cage fight, I mean just a tiff. A little friction is cute.

Calling me is fine, but calling with a suspicious tone, or nagging is unacceptable. I'm not a child, I don't have a curfew.

I don't like sports and video games because I've had my fill when I was a teenager. Now I'm interested in arts, science occasionally, reading, traveling, and other fulfilling life experiences, especially if I share them with the person I love. I sympathize with any woman whose husband wears a jersey and yells at the tv, or talks proudly about his World of Warcraft guild.

Overall, I think I may err a bit on the stereotypical "macho" side, but I don't think it's overly ridiculous.

[cay8099]

The dressing part: just because she had a baby, doesn't mean she has to be in sweatpants all the time. It's about common sense, and not forgetting that dad still exists.

Many of us mothers do wear sweatpants around the house. It's easier when taking care of children, and more comfortable. When I know we are going somewhere I fix myslef up. My MIL told me I needed to fix my hair and put on makeup everyday; I found it very offensive. If my husband were to suggest this I'd hurt him. The point here is that, I take care of my skin, and teeth so that when I need to be I am beautiful.

Women don't call nagging suspiciously unless you give them a reason to.

I agree with kelly you don't need a little tiff to have great sex.

[Bec caV]

First off, Ward and June Cleaver were fictional characters. The whole image of the perfect 1950's life is a myth. There was no '1950s' woman... she didn't exist. She didn't sit back and let her husband completely control her life.
Men may not have done housework, probably because women were too afraid they'd do it wrong. The house was generally the woman's domain, and she controlled it and made all the decisions. The man went and worked to bring home money for her, she decided what it was spent on. Big decisions (what car to buy, should they get a TV, ect) were usually joint decisions, often with the man 'thinking' he made the decision.
Men gave babies bottles and changed diapers.
Women kept tabs on their husband's whereabouts.

All I can say is you're setting unrealistic expectations on yourself as well as a woman. You can never have a successful relationship unless you can give as well as take.
You can't tell a woman what to think, how to act, or what to wear. It never happened that way. No more than she should tell you those things. A good relationship is one that works both ways.

Requesting arguments for venting and make up sex? That's a bit unrealistic. Open communication is far better for venting. Fights will happen, but don't require them. That's an unhealthy attitude. Besides, ask any married man, the best sex is not make up sex. The best sex comes when you're sitting on the couch watching TV, you look at each other, then go at it like wild animals.

Getting 'fat' because of 'letting yourself go'... I'm sure some women do that, but pregnancy can change your metabolism. A woman may try not to gain weight, but will. Especially if you plan on having her do everything.... depression may kill her self image and make it difficult to loose weight.

In the end, if you want the perfect wife, let her be herself. Love her for the person she is and not some far fetched, mythological image of a woman. You'll never find happiness because you'll never find that person. Marriage isn't about finding someone with every quality you ever wanted, it's about finding someone who piques your interest, has enough in common with you that you enjoy time together, but has enough differences that life is full of spice and new experiences. Ask any married person if they thought the person they married was their 'ideal' mate, they'll tell you no. Their partner has some qualities that doesn't make them perfect, but they love that person because of those flaws... imperfections... whatever you may want to call it.

[eldyahna]

Maybe a woman should list her expectations of a "man" for marriage...
This was my list of must haves in a guy before I got married.

1. He needs to have a sense of humor. If you cant make me laugh then forget it...
2. He needs intelligence and a lot of it, if you cannot keep up with my deep ponderings of all that is than forget it.
3. No jelousy, if you are so insecure to be jelous than I don't need you making me feel insecure in myself to make you feel better.
4. Confidance without being arrogant is the sexiest characteristic there is.
5. He has to accept me for me. If you don't like me as I am it is not worth for me to change myself for you.
6. I can't stand a guy to tell me what I can and can't do, I am my own person and can think and act for myself.
7.If it is ok for you to go drinking with your friends without my nagging, it is ok for me to go drinking with my friends without you nagging or stalking or getting jelous.
8. He needs to be a good cook. I don't like cooking. Thats not to say it has to be on the table by the time I get home every night, i cook some, he can cook some.
9. A guy to be as an equal to me, not someone who has to be in front of or someone to weak to stand beside me. I am a very strong minded woman, if a guy can't handle it go somewhere else.
10. Help with the chores, it leaves more time for being together.
11. Take part in doing the mundane everyday things of childrearing, again equals...
12. Don't forget about romance, I am a hopeless romantic...


Now who I married as a husband isn't to far off the mark.
He loves me for me and would not have me any other way. He is funny, intelligent, and neither one of us expects the other to change unwillingly. He does most of the cooking, and in return I do most of the cleaning. We raise our son together, when I am home I do take care of him the most, but since I work shifts, I work swings for 2 weeks out of the month so it evens out. We do have disagreements but never on purpose. We work through them, normally before the night is out. He will pick wildflowers for me on a whim and come bring them to me. We hug and kiss everyday, several times a day. We call eachother on the way home from work to let the other know where we will be, that way if a long time has passed without a call to check in, we can safely say the other is in an emergency. It is a long 45 min drive home after work on a long dark road in the middle of nowhere so that part is important. We call just to say "I love you"
He has never been jelous or possesive, which adds to the trust factor. We completely trust eachother. He is as strongminded and confident as I am, sometimes leading to butting heads, but it reminds us we are equal. He has his guys nights out while I watch our toddler, I have my girls nights out while he watches our toddler. He changes diapers, and gives baths, sometimes he needs reminding but only if he is caught up in doing something or talking to someone. I feel I am the luckiest woman on earth, and he always says he is the luckiest man on earth. That's how it should be according to me, give and take, and don't ever make the other fell like they are taken for granted. Most of my standards were met, but any that weren't are to petty to worry about anyway. No one is ever going to be exactly as you expect them to be, to me that would be insanely boring...

[eldyahna]

My biggest point is that you should allow your expectaions to be flexible, you may be pleasantly surprised. When me and my husband met I was still in the AF, so bringing home more bacon than him so to speak. He didn't let that bother him which was great, a lot of guys are bothered when a woman makes more money than they do. Notice that nowhere in my expectations does it say anything about money and career or looks for that matter. Those things are temporary and material no matter how anyone puts it. Yes looking good is important but when I have been up all night with a sick baby, have been thrown up on on had snot smeared on me, haven't been able to get the dishes done, and try to cook dinner with one hand while holding thus sick baby in the other and am drained and exhausted, I don't want to hear a single word about me wearing sweatpants from my husband or he would be dead... enough said. Baby spit up and snot smears on a good outfit can ruin it, especially the spit up...

[Amboq07]

First of all I would just like to say that there is nothing wrong with the things you are looking for but you may have to look very hard to find the right woman to fit all of that. Many people now dont belive in marriages where the woman does the cooking and cleaning and the man makes the money. I myself am kind of old fashioned so I dont have a problem with most of the things you mentioned. I do all of the cleaning, taking care of the baby and most of the cooking. One thing you should realize about having a baby is that sometimes something comes up and your not able to cook dinner. Raising a baby is very tough job, many men dont realize that because they are not the ones taking care of the baby every day, all day but it is tough so some days I may not cook but my husband appreciates everything I do and he knows I work hard too so if I am not able to cook dinner one night he cooks something for himself. I dont see anything wrong with that. The only thing I didnt agree with you on was that you do not want to be asked where you were any time. When your married you should have the right to know where your partner is. Just try to put yourself in the womans shoes, if she went somewhere and were gone for a couple of hours wouldnt you want to know where she went? Of course you would. I mean if its a guys night theres nothing wrong with that you dont even have to tell her everything that yall did just make sure she knows where you are. Any way, like I said there isnt anything really wrong with your list but you have to really search of a woman that feels the same way which may be tough!! Good luck. FYI, I know this may sound weird but my husband and I met on match.com 4 years ago. We are married and have a son that is 14 months old.

[atippit]

I agree with amboq, there's nothing really wrong with what you are looking for but you'd have to look very hard to find it. Unless you want a mail order bride.

I was raised old fashioned, my Mother was very much "The man is the head of the household" and so we were raised this way. I learned to cook, clean, and take care of babies very early on which of course I rebelled against and didn't want to have anything to do with it for a long time. Needless to say eventually they came in handy!

But I have to also agree on the flexibility and also you can get very sexy sweat pants from Victoria Secret. You know a cute pair of those and a little sleeveless T while cleaning the house sometimes can make magic happen on the kitchen floor! ^^ So don't knock all sweat pants! And do be flexible after your one-day wife has a baby about the dressing nice thing. I was very adamant about dressing nice, always doing my hair, and I never have left the house without makeup on.... but after having a baby and never having time to even take a shower it's awfully hard to find a few minutes let alone a handful of them to get around in the morning.

Anyways... I don't think it's unreasonable, BUT sometimes when you meet someone that seems to fit all your criteria it doesn't leave room for the spontaneity and the things that drive you crazy enough to love them. So leave room for her to be herself outside of your pictured perfection.

[junx0r]

The list posted by eldyahna kind of answers kelly's question about what a "progressive man" is. It's the kind of guy who's just average, who's relieved when the woman takes the lead, doesn't mind getting married because he doesn't have much success with the ladies anyway, the woman doesn't mind marrying him because he's reliable and predictable, he'll work for the next 30 years and support the family. He's very agreeable on everything, not particularly alpha (whatever that means), and doesn't really know much about male-female dynamics. Essentially, he lacks that raw masculine power. Anyway, this is a complicated subject, so that's just a quick comment.

I am flexible on a lot of things, even the money thing, but it will bother me if my wife makes more than I do, or worse, if she supports me. This is a good thing. Men naturally have that drive in them where they want to provide for the family and support it, just like women naturally have a nurturing side. This is nature.


Amboq, online dating is now very accepted. I have a friend who met a gorgeous woman on match.com. I was jealous. I still am actually.

I'm pleasantly surprised by all of you who support the old-fashioned way. One thing I must point out is that I believe the housewife plays a major role in her husband's success at work in supporting him emotionally and otherwise. Without her he's nothing.

Now all I have to do is find a cute redhead who's old-fashioned.

atippit, you sound like a fun chick. :P

[Amboq07]

I wanted to add something else about the whole fixing your self up after having a baby. A lot of women totally lose themselves after having a baby. They don’t care to fix themselves up any more and they don’t care about their appearance. I think its just about personality type. I have always been the type never to leave the house without makeup and I have always wanted to look good. I have a very active little boy but I still make time to workout regularly (5x a week), dress nice, and put makeup on every day. I do these things because even though I am married I still want to impress my husband and look the best I can for him. If its important to you, you have to make time for it!

[Bec caV]

I would NEVER call the type of man that eldyhna described average, doesn't mind a woman taking the lead, and hasn't had much luck with the ladies... hardly predictable!

If you're basing that solely on the "9. A guy to be as an equal to me, not someone who has to be in front of or someone to weak to stand beside me. I am a very strong minded woman, if a guy can't handle it go somewhere else." you've got it all wrong.
My husband is much like her criteria for a man. I'm a controlling woman (as he so bluntly pointed out one night) I need a man who can handle that as well as make sure I don't get out of control. He has to be strong and dynamic, able to both give and take and remind me that I'm not in charge, it's an equal partnership.
He's very controlling too, so we keep each other in check. We compromise, not me walk all over him. Sometimes that means I have to give in, sometimes he does... and when he feels he's getting close to giving in too much he reminds me of that as I do to him.

As far as not much luck with the ladies... I had to threaten women to get away from him, he was taken, when we first started dating.
Predictable.. never. He never ceases to amaze me, does things that I would never have expected. Every day is an adventure... and though I can read him like a book, we've been together for 11 years, but every so often I get a surprise I wasn't counting on :)

Never, ever underestimate the man who is married to a strong woman. Because as eldyhna said he has to be equal... and that means just as strong as she is.

[atippit]

aw yay! i am a fun chick. :) that's why my husband took me off the market haha.

and bec cav, i really believe we strong women marry strong men because the rest we can stomp all over and/or it's just not fun. i need someone who is going to tell me "no" every once in awhile or i'll just get myself into a whole world of trouble.

[Bec caV]

My ex boyfriend let me walk all over him. It was sad.
He broke it off cause he couldn't take me. Which was fine, he had issues anyhow (like growing up... yeesh... he was 26 and living like an 18 year old)

[atippit]

It is sad. That's why junxOr is right, we want husbands with spines... that preferably can bend enough to give us a foot massage. ^^

[Bec caV]

Ooo foot massage!

[junx0r]

I love giving foot massages, and I've yet to meet a woman who doesn't like them.

Maybe the dynamic I like is hard to describe, but it's one where both people care deeply about each other without the man turning into a needy, clingy wuss. For that raw masculinity, perhaps the image of Gerard Bulter in 300 would be a good guide (minus all the gore and brutality). I basically just love how the men were real men back then. Anyway that's my rant about the modern progressive man.

Now where do you ladies suggest is a good place to meet a good girl? I usually meet girls in clubs. And also, I have a thing for redheads!

[atippit]

It really depends on your location, what you're into, and how much time you have... but otherwise most women are going to do the internet thing anymore so they can look at what they're getting themselves into before a date, plus no one seems to have time anymore to go looking around... sad to say.

But I would say clubs are not a good place because any time my friends and I would go to clubs it was to dance-dance-dance not find our sole mates and guys just wound up buying us drinks instead of getting our numbers. A different take would be a cafe, a wine bar, or a martini bar... still somewhere you can go comfortably and an atmosphere for conversation. you could easily mesh into a small group this way (cause most often they are with friends unless at a cafe where they go to read books or study).

[kelly23]

Ah, Leonidas. Mmmmmmm. I don't know where to meet someone because my husband and I are high school sweethearts. I don't think I would go to a club though. I am pretty laid back and like to go with the flow so I appreciate a husband who is take charge. I want to know that he can take care of me and that I can rely on him. My sister has fiery red hair, but she is married so sorry about that. :)

[charliesmommy]

Stop Feeding the TROLL!!!

Anyone who has these egotistical veiws wouldn't feel that they need anyone's opinion on them. Especially a bunch of moms on a parenting forum.

[kare.bear]

There are women out there who are looking for a relationship much as you describe, but it's unlikely they are the ones trolling clubs and bars... The woman you are looking for is more old fashioned than that, she would only assume that guys in bars are there for the wrong reasons...

I recommend the online thing as well...I was matched with MANY men on E Harmony who seemed much like you...Very successful, extremely good looking, and wanting to cross the "wife and kids" thing off their list. I didn't communicate with any of them since I detest lists and would hate a future that was constantly being audited for someone else's life expections...but, saying that, I have a few really close friends who are looking for just that.

My husband and I finally met on Match.com... He is very successful, I find him VERY attractive but he encourages me to define what I want in our marriage just as much as he wants - a much better fit for me...

Good Luck!

[junx0r]

kare bear, I don't like eHarmony because it comes across as too serious. People on there go there to get married, not to meet other people. Getting married should happen more naturally, it's not an item to check off a list.

I also don't like how they match you based on a test or whatever, I guess it appeals more to guys who are shy and nerdy and don't know how to approach women.

charliesmommy, I've received great input from the women here and I value and respect their opinions. I've learned quite a bit from them. Please keep a positive attitude when posting to this thread. Thanks.

[eldyahna]

I would have to agree with Bec Cav and Atippit! Bec Cav has described the relationship I have with my husband to a tee!! He is hardly ordinary!! And he is more "manly" so to speak than any other guy I have known, Aragon and Leonidas type manly! I still have to glare at the girls who drop jaw and googly eye him! But we are equals, and our relationship is that of equals. We compliment and balance eachother as well as keep each other in line. It is an awesome feeling knowing that he is with me by his own choice and not by my being able to play puppet with him. I cant stand spinelessness in either man or woman.

[Disco Lemonade]

My advice...don’t get married or have kids. If your not willing to eat Burger King a few times here and there, if your not willing to scrub the toilet while the wifey sweeps and mops, if your not willing to be around your child as much as your wife. Its just gonna come around and bite you on the butt, your wife’s gonna start questioning you, why don’t you do it...blah, blah, blah...so then the famous "nagging" begins. So yea, don’t get married, since you can afford it, hire a sexy maid ;)

[junx0r]

Haha Disco, that's a little harsh. I think that as long as I'm honest upfront about my expectations, everything should be fine. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable: I work and bring home the bacon, you're free to do whatever as long as you take care of the house and cooking. This is the way millions of people have done it before. If I work, then come home and do half the work, well that's unfair.

That's not to say men shouldn't respect their wives or their wishes; of course it goes without saying that both parties will compromise here and there to live side by side.

I also have rules I think men should never do:
- Let themselves go. Yes, this applies to men too. Growing a beer gut is unacceptable; being proud of it is even worse. This is disrespectful to himself, his wife, and humanity at large. It also sets a bad example for the kids. A man should strive to be strong and athletic.

- Drive a minivan. Sorry, just a pet peeve.

- Say "we are pregnant". This irks me to no end (expression used mostly by the infamous "progressive man"). WE are not pregnant. The correct expression is "my wife is pregnant." Do you say "we have our period?" I didn't think so.

- Witnessing childbirth. Sorry, some things are for women's eyes only. Go wait in the lobby please.

- Videotaping childbirth. This shouldn't be allowed in my humble opinion.

- Forcing your desires on your children. I've witnessed this many times, and it makes me mad. If your son wants to play with a doll, let him. It's not gonna make him gay. If he wants a toy gun, let him. It will not turn him into a criminal. I may not be qualified to speak on this since I don't have kids of my own, but this is how I feel now.

Some people may disagree on some points, and agree on others, and that's okay as long as we respect each other's opinions.

[atippit]

I don't think he's a troll, I just think he's very particular. I was too before I met my DH. I had a detailed complete list down to eye / hair color and what kind of shoes were acceptable and not acceptable to me. They had to have a successful career, be attractive, play guitar, read NY Times, and enjoy having a whiskey even though I don't.. just because I liked the image. Anyways I had a very detailed list... and then I met my husband and I fell in love and a lot of those things went completely out the window. I never saw myself as a SAHM, I'm a career woman at heart and here I am at home. I never saw myself with another baby and viola! I wanted a life in NY in a loft and drinking cocktails on a beach in Fiji but instead I have a house in a small town and I'll be lucky to get my real honeymoon this year.

Anyways... He just has something he's looking to go by which I don't think is wrong, just his "ideal" and as everyone knows you find someone that fits a lot of those things and the rest begins not to matter because they matter more.

I don't think he's being egotistical, not sure what brought him to Parenting to ask this question but he is being polite. If we're supposed to be willing and nice to new people who come in here with wild outrageous tales, etc. then i don't see why we should be told not to be nice and willing to reply to a polite person. =/

[eldyahna]

Now if you both work and come home and do half the work it is fair... Both me and my husband have full time jobs, his is mostly manual physical labor, mine a desk job that requires brains, both tiring in different ways. His requires sleep so he doesn't smack his hand with a hammer, mine requires sleep so I dont mess up stuff for Uncle Sam... I get up with our son when I am home to do so, when I am not my husband does, and will even let me sleep in on the weekends at least one day past 630 am, the time our son thinks it's time to get up. The most important thing in a relationship other than love is trust, we fully trust the other to support the other, there is no jelousy. Its all give and take, equally, balanced, if one gives too much and the other takes too much there will be problems...
I agree with you on most of the rules... Me and my husband are getting back into shape, and once back in shape, staying there, we eat fairly healthy but I still have my Dr. Pepper at least once a day...(could probably drop the last 15 lbs of baby fat if I stopped that) I REFUSE to ever drive a minivan, better to get a crossover suv...He never said WE were pregnant, he always said she is pregnant...
He watched the birth of our son and cut the umbilical cord, but has told me since, he wont peek "down there" the next time we have a kid...I totally agree with the no videotaping! And our son has a doll that he will ocasionally drive around in or over with one of his many trucks, but he will hug a tree and many other things, animals, (he tries to hug bugs too) and people... So, so far he is a loving boy who is all boy. I guess in a way I agree with all your "rules"...
Like you said, be honest with your expectations from the beginning, if/when you find her, don't make her guess the expectations, and also be sure you know hers. Before I met my husband, a lot of the guys I had gone out with either wanted to try and control me and change me or wanted me to be their mother and wipe their snotty nose and hold their hand. I was happy when I finally found someone who could live up to my own expectations and whose expectations I have exceeded. Keep your eyes open though, you may find her in the most unexpected place...

[junx0r]

aw, thanks atippit. I think you understand how I feel. I don't mean to create controversy. I just wanted to "tell it like it is" and see what women really think. I really randomly stumbled upon this forum and since you're all mostly married and parents, you're qualified to actually talk about marriage and relationships.

I'm actually a pretty caring person, not the chauvinist pig I may appear to be. And I just might meet a really special woman and the list will go out the window. In a few years you'll catch me on here saying "No time to post, gotta help with laundry!" :P

eldyahna, thank you for sharing. Actually talking to you guys is giving me great insight into how women think, and what to expect. Also, the anonymity of online conversation is allowing us to say what we really think.

Your relationship is the kind I'd like to have. A non-nonsense one based on trusting and supporting each other. If you both work then of course it's unfair for you to do all the housework. Your boy has good parents.

I want to really try to provide enough so my wife doesn't have to work. And I will keep channeling my inner Leonidas/Maximus.

[happy 2BaMom]

"If I work, then come home and do half the work, well that's unfair."

This shows that you do not fully understand what it means to stay home and raise the kids and run a household. If you are working a 9-5 type job and then you get to come home and kick up your feet and have a hot dinner waiting for you, when does your poor wife get any time to herself?

I hardly think you "babysitting" your own children for a few hours a week will give your overworked wife enough time off. When is she supposed to find time during the day to do her hair and make-up, clean house, do laundry, wash dishes, run errands, cook breakfast, lunch and dinner, properly interact and stimulate your children (so they don't end up like drooling, feral beasts), go to the gym, etc, etc, etc?

So while you work your 40 hours a week, your stepford, robot wife works 24/7 to get all that done (minus of course the "few" hours a week you are willing to "babysit" your own children). Sorry to tell you that there are not enough hours in the day.

In all honesty, I think you need to see a therapist to find out why you want to live in fantasy world, not in the real world.

There is nothing wrong with wanting your future wife to want to take care of herself and your children, but I think you may have to help out a little bit more (that is the understatement of the year!!).

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I really think you need a reality check.

[junx0r]

Happy2B, I hear you loud and clear. Now hear me out.

I work a very demanding job, usually more than 40 hrs a week stressful executive position. After work if I have the energy I go to the gym and work out like a raging meathead to blow off some steam. Then I like to go home and relax. I *cannot* worry about doing "work" after work. I *need* to kick up my feet.

So basically as long as I don't have kids my wife should be pretty content; she has all day to herself, minus the time to do household stuff.

I don't know what the answer is after we have kids. Maybe I'll have to say goodbye to my life? Maybe we shouldn't have kids?

[Bec caV]

Well, what happy 2bamom is saying that raising kids (SAHM) is a full time job... one that doesn't end and you get to go home, one that doesn't have weekends or holidays. SAHM literally work 24/7. It is so easy to burn out especially with a newborn. No sleep, still recovering, it's not easy. Pregnancy isn't easy, you don't get much rest after a certain point (for me it was around 6 months pregnant when I really started feeling him kick), and your body is working overtime to support yourself as well as the baby inside of you... then to go through labor... labor is putting it mildly... then birth, then post partum hormone changes... while caring for a helpless infant. Then be expected to take care of the child, no you can't just always sit them in a swing and spend your day doing something else. And be expected to keep a clean house and make dinner.
Just hope the kid doesn't have colic. When my son had colic, dinner never got made until very late (we ordered out a lot) as both my husband and I were walking the length of the house trying to calm him.
For reference.... colic usually sets in late afternoon/early evening and will last until the baby is too tired to cry anymore. I was lucky, I was able to get him calm, but he's not much of a sleeper (takes after his mother).
How they used to quiet babies in days past... (that is up until the late 70's) and why the picture perfect household until that time... doctors used to prescribe phenobarbital for colicky babies. Drug them with a hallucinogen. Yeah, babies don't cry when their tripping :p

Now I do agree, if a wife, before kids, doesn't work, then she has time to clean the house and cook dinner. But after kids come into the picture... remember there is no such thing as mommy days off unless the husband is willing to take up some slack. At the same time, even if there is no kids, don't think it's free reign to drop your dirty underwear anywhere you please, leave dirty dishes on the table, and expect her to run to the kitchen to get you a drink while you chill out. You're legs aren't broken, she's cleaned the house and cooked dinner, at least find the fridge, the sink, and hamper on your own.

Now addressing the birth of the child being for women's eyes only... the lobby is no place for the father, trust me. You don't have to watch the baby coming out of the vagina, but I would have never gotten through the birthing process without my husband there holding my hand (and leg) and encouraging me. He was my emotional support while I delivered OUR son.
That being said, my husband did actually watch our son being born. I was surprised as I thought it would make him uncomfortable as our boy was a big boy and not that he's squeamish, more like hates to see me in pain. And it is quite gross. He said it was a wonderful experience. Though both he and I agree... video taping it.. that's ewww. He recorded after the birth. Once he was out, he recorded the first 30 seconds of our son's life... after they cut the cord. :p

And lastly... women do tend to say 'we are pregnant' because even though we are carrying the baby and do all the work through delivery, it takes two, half the father's genes went into making the baby, and well, it wasn't immaculate conception, someone else besides the woman was involved.

[Disco Lemonade]

Haha Disco, that's a little harsh. I think that as long as I'm honest upfront about my expectations, everything should be fine. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable: I work and bring home the bacon, you're free to do whatever as long as you take care of the house and cooking. This is the way millions of people have done it before. If I work, then come home and do half the work, well that's unfair.

That's not to say men shouldn't respect their wives or their wishes; of course it goes without saying that both parties will compromise here and there to live side by side.

I also have rules I think men should never do:
- Let themselves go. Yes, this applies to men too. Growing a beer gut is unacceptable; being proud of it is even worse. This is disrespectful to himself, his wife, and humanity at large. It also sets a bad example for the kids. A man should strive to be strong and athletic.

- Drive a minivan. Sorry, just a pet peeve.

- Say "we are pregnant". This irks me to no end (expression used mostly by the infamous "progressive man"). WE are not pregnant. The correct expression is "my wife is pregnant." Do you say "we have our period?" I didn't think so.

- Witnessing childbirth. Sorry, some things are for women's eyes only. Go wait in the lobby please.

- Videotaping childbirth. This shouldn't be allowed in my humble opinion.

- Forcing your desires on your children. I've witnessed this many times, and it makes me mad. If your son wants to play with a doll, let him. It's not gonna make him gay. If he wants a toy gun, let him. It will not turn him into a criminal. I may not be qualified to speak on this since I don't have kids of my own, but this is how I feel now.

Some people may disagree on some points, and agree on others, and that's okay as long as we respect each other's opinions.


Wow, I’m sorry you thought I was harsh, it was not my intention. Going through your rules, there’s nothing wrong with them really. The “we are pregnant thing” is a little gay lol. Mini van…I don’t have one, but I did go for a bigger car with lots of room inside. Witnessing child birth…you don’t have to look but I think it would be great if you were in there with your wife. My husband chose not to see anything, but he was there to coach me and to keep me hanging on. Video taping child birth, that was a no no for me, I’m not interested in showing how far my kooch can stretch. Forcing desires on children, that’s just wrong. What I was trying to show you was my point of view. I work, my husband works, so we pretty much go half on everything. This goes for laundry, dishes, cleaning, and there are going to be days that there won’t be time for a delish home cooked meal, especially with a child. I’m sorry you considered my response harsh :(

[atippit]

I don't like the "we are pregnant" thing either, but my reason is different. If my DH said that when I was pregnant, hormonal, in pain, utterly nauseous, not being able to sleep, and craving a green bean burrito I would just get SO mad! There are times when you are pregnant and you are just like, "WHY DON'T YOU TRY CARRYING THIS BABY! *roar*" I think that would have been one of those times.

Also, I don't know how I would have gotten through the birthing process if it wasn't for my DH being there. When my son's heart rate dropped and he came out not breathing I think I would have lost my mind and somehow found the ability to jump off the table while being half paralyzed if he wasn't there to hold my hand and say it was going to be okay. On the other hand! I explained to him that I did not want him looking down there, I did not want a video tape, but he was there to hold my hand and run his through my hair and tell me he was proud of me. Women need that, they need to know (whether something goes wrong or not) that you are there even in the hardest of times. So I also disagree about being in the waiting room, and I think once you are in there and you actually see your first child born you'd understand why you wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

As for the cooking, cleaning, etc wife/baby I do agree with Bec Cav that before a baby is in the picture that there really isn't much of a reason why she can't. But after the baby is born you are torn up with horrible cramps, bleeding everywhere, driven insane by the lack of sleep and that's all without the hormones, the crying all the time for no reason, and whatever else postpartum wants to try to kill you with. You can read up on postpartum if you want a better description but if you aren't willing to clean up and/or cook after the baby is born for the sake of the sanity in your marriage and to do your wife a favor hire a maid (and not a sexy one, get an old maid because you do NOT want to set off those hormones) and get take out or go to gourmetstation.com. I would say for the first month after the baby it's almost damn near impossible to do anything. And let her have her mom stay or a friend stay so she can have some help while you are off working your 40+ hours and she can get a shower and get around, or get a mini nap, this would really help her feel better about herself.

[j-love]

Goodness!! Well, I don't feel the need to agree nor disagree...you like what you like and I am not one to tell you any different. This just seems like more of a resume or want ad to me, and not a post for an opinion; unless you were trying to get some negative opinions. Anywho, good luck on your quest for the 'perfect 1950's woman.'

[junx0r]

Disco, no worries haha I still love you.

j-love I think after hearing what the ladies here have said I'm changing my mind a little bit. Damn, I'm getting soft. :P

[j-love]

You should look at it more like a reality check than getting soft..lol. ;-)

[eldyahna]

Well my husband does take a few minutes to kick his feet up and get his internet fix, but he also makes sure I get to sleep past 7am at least one day on the weekend. Since we both work, normally we are both up before the sun, so sleeping in is a treat especially when you have a toddler who thinks 615 is sleeping in. So we take turns... But I think there is one thing most every woman on here would agree with me on and that is: There is nothing in the world that will make your wife love you more than helping with chores and helping with kids. There is nothing sexier than a man willing to change diapers, share the spit-up, hold the baby to try and calm them down, and who is understanding enough to realize it's tough but it can be fun. I fall more in love with my husband every time I get to watch him play with our son, pick him up when he gets hurt, make him something to eat, as well as remember to put his dirty clothes in the hamper and the dishes in the sink, I even love watching him cook, and he's a great cook where I'm not so much because I never enjoyed it.

[mom2aboy]

I find it funny that you wouldn't do EHarmony because people go there to get married and it comes across as some kind of a test that people should pass. You are asking questions about marriage and have some kind of a test that some lady should pass in order to be qualified to be your wife. My advice would be: think that some one out there could have a list just like yours when looking for a husband. Are you sure you can offer someone else the same you are asking for? Isnt it fair for somebody else to be entittled the same you are expecting from a partner? Finally, love is what makes a relationship works. Marriage is a couple's effort to make the other one happier, and your are being selfish right now thinking only about how YOU want to be treated. I really wish you luck finding that woman. My husband is so not what I wanted in a partner. HE IS SO MUCH MORE!! And I love that being the head of the household hasn't stop him from helping me with our son, doing the house chores, and being a great dad. I understand if you dont want to wittness the birth of your child, you will be missing a great experience in life, but all kids need mom and dad to raise them together. It's not only the woman's job. Once again, good luck.

[junx0r]

Thanks. I don't mind if a woman has a list too. I generally find that women also have types, but they're more flexible. Meaning, a guy who doesn't fit their blueprint has a chance of winning them over if he has a fantastic personality. Men, as we all know, are more visual. Again, nature's to blame.

Funny, the show Friends is on, and if you're familiar with it, the characters Ross and Chandler are the kind of guys I describe as "progressive". I wouldn't want my relationship to be like theirs (especially Chandler).

I agree with you on the need for both mom and dad to raise an emotionally healthy child, though saying that is becoming kind of a taboo with all the single parents today.

[atippit]

That's why I watched some talkshow today where it was talking about how women need to set higher goals, a list perse, and stick to it because men will climb mountains if they truly want to be with you.

I hate Friends.

And you are right about the single parents, but if Mom & Dad are there then they should be "there". I think that's more of the way to say it.

[mom2aboy]

Well, I know how many single dads and moms are out there,and they try their best to do a great job with their kids. What I meant is basically what atippit said, and also even if mom and dad are not together anymore they both should be involved in the parenting. Now, that's a whole other point with all the irresponsible parenting out there nowadays.
And I love Friends. Sorry if I went a little bit out of the thread's issue.

[freckles]

Your post really bugged me.

I think you are controlling and may be an only child who is used to getting exactly what he wants. The only reason you want a wife is to do your dirty work. Sounds like as long as she SERVES you first, then she is free to do whatever. That is not a marriage. More like a trained animal.

Most importantly, You did not mention any GENUINE AFFECTION for your future wife in your post.....just a list of rules you might give to a robot.

When my husband and I first dated, I did not want to part with him and I wanted to the smell of his clothes to linger in my memory......not refer to my cold, uncompromising "check, un-check list."

[freckles]

Just for the record..........I am a red head.

[kelly23]

Friends is still one of my favorite shows and I watch it almost every day. :) I am still lost on the progressive man, even with the Ross and Chandler examples. I also agree about the "we are pregnant." NO, I am pregnant, you will be a father soon, but you are not carrying the kid in your stomach and all the things that go along with that. Freckles, do you have really red hair, or are you like more strawberry blonde?

[atippit]

i don't know if you can have affection for a person that doesn't exist yet...

... just saying.

[Bec caV]

When my husband and I first dated, I did not want to part with him and I wanted to the smell of his clothes to linger in my memory......not refer to my cold, uncompromising "check, un-check list."

I used to have a bath robe my husband left at my apartment when we were dating so he wouldn't have to bring one when he came to see me. He lived 90 miles away from me so we only saw each other on weekends when he'd drive out to spend the weekend with me. So on Sundays when he went back home, I would wear his robe just because it smelled like him.

I guess that was what made me realize he was the keeper.... :)

[freckles]

i don't know if you can have affection for a person that doesn't exist yet...

... just saying.

Perhaps "emotion" may have been a better word. No passion in his "list."
__________________________________________________ ___

Bec caV---> That is so sweet!
__________________________________________________ ___

Kelly---> My hair is more Auburn-ish.
__________________________________________________ ___

[junx0r]

Hey guys! I haven't been able to check in for the past couple of days. Thank you for sharing your opinions (good and bad).

I realize my initial list made me look like an emotionless monster. That's not the case. I just wanted to focus on the aspects that I thought should be different than the average relationship. It goes without saying that, as a human, I want to love my wife and be loved, I want to romance her, celebrate important dates with her, and let her know I think about her when I'm away. Generally, have a passionate relationship like any hot blooded person.

About the microwave dinner thing: Of course if you both work, none of "my rules" would apply. It's unreasonable to expect you to cook. Being a housewife is a fulltime job.

In my relationship though, I'd kill myself to make enough so my wife doesn't have to work. I just don't want her to have to work. There a sense of achievement that goes with it that you cannot understand unless you're a man.

About the nursing thing, hmm, I said she'll take care of them most of the time. It's reasonable if I work and she doesn't; she'll just be with them most of the time. I'll do what I can.

The fighting thing, it was more a tongue-in-cheek thing, they're not REAL fights, more like playful stuff.

I read an interesting article lately:

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/moneyhappy/150630
-------
Past recessions have seen unemployed men rejecting new roles at home. A study of men cast out of the steel-belt industries in the 1970s, for example, found about half went into a tailspin, withdrawing from family life. "Men who have strong identities as breadwinners don't want to feel even further feminized, so they resist doing housework and childcare," says Stephanie Coontz, director of research at the Council on Contemporary Families, and author of ‘Marriage: A History'.

Time-use studies have found slow but steady change: Over the past three decades, men have doubled their contribution to household chores, and since 1965, they have tripled the time spent caring for children. But women still do about two-thirds of those activities.
---------

What do you think about this trend?

freckles, I am ten times more attracted to women with pale skin and freckles and auburn/red hair than blondes or any other type. You should know why, you're a redhead!

bec cav, scientists say that smell plays an important role in attraction (pheromones and what not). Beautiful women's smell is intoxicating (their natural smell, not perfume): you just can't get enough.

[atippit]

"In my relationship though, I'd kill myself to make enough so my wife doesn't have to work. I just don't want her to have to work. There a sense of achievement that goes with it that you cannot understand unless you're a man."

My DH is like this. If I just wanted a job for the sake of having a job to leave the house and do something he says is one thing, but if I "had" to have a job he would die. It just makes him feel like he's not providing for us, 'holding up his end of the deal' so to speak, or that he's a loser... etc.

[Bec caV]

bec cav, scientists say that smell plays an important role in attraction (pheromones and what not). Beautiful women's smell is intoxicating (their natural smell, not perfume): you just can't get enough.

Ayup... known that one for a long time :p Women like comforting smells... we find the scent of a man comforting.

I joke that my husband is just like Niles from the TV show Frasier. He's always smelling my hair :p My son is the same way... constantly buried in my hair when he's cranky.

But don't discount the perfume... :p A smart woman finds the perfume that works with her own scent (body chemistry) and that will drive men absolutely wild! I wear Red because (though it's darned expensive) it works just right with my body that I have to pretty much pry my husband off with a crowbar *very evil grin*. The smell of leather, Red, and me.... very dangerous to him.

[junx0r]

atippit, that's sooo like me. Maybe he also tackles you randomly and drags you to the bedroom kicking and screaming (playfully of course). In my case it's the testosterone that makes me do it!

haha bec cav, you're a bad girl, poor hubby. Actually, I used to go out with this blonde, and she used to wear this lotion or perfume that drove me CRAZY. She refused to tell me what it's called. After stopped seeing each other I contacted her and just wanted the name of it so I can buy it for this other girl and she would never tell me. :(

[cay8099]

The worst is when you finally find that scent, and they discontinue it. Victoria's Sectret made the spray called Whispering Mist. I got hit on more than any other time when I was wearing that scent, and they quit making it. I was so disappointed, but lucky me I caught my man without it.

I take that back; I don't wish you any kind of luck at all.

[atippit]

i wish junxOr =(

becca you are awesome, i wish i had a friend like you around here haha. i used to never wear perfumes, only lotions or oils, now i have a perfume i wear very rarely 'versace' so rarely in fact i had to go look at what it was. lol.

i was a red head once, also a brunette, a black, a purple, a pink... hah. maybe i'm just not getting the whole red haired thing. i don't even know what my natural hair color is anymore.

[lennytuck]

I just want to say one thing here. Why is it so bad for a husband to want his wife to clean the house and do laundry???? I work 50-60 hrs a week. I get the week ends off and spend them at home with my family. Also during the week when I get home from work I spend time with my kids and my wife. We take turns cooking dinner, that is when we don't order out. my only complaint is that she is a stay at home mom and I get stuck having to clean the house every weekend. there are times I come home and have to wait for towels to dry before I can take a shower or have to free ball because I have no clean underwear. then when I say something about it I am an asshole. How hard is it to wash some clothes and push the sweeper and dust some things.

[cay8099]

There is nothing wrong with a husband wanting his wife to do those things. What we're saying is that the husband should be willing to help out by helping put away clothes, or pitching in with the dishes. The SAHM should do most of the house work, but still needs help. It's not easy to stay at home working 24/7 to raise children.

[junx0r]

I do my own laundry. If I get married and keep doing it, why get married? This isn't degrading women, it's simply being practical. I share my life and my earnings with my wife, she supports me and makes my life easier.

Same for cleaning. I buy the house, she takes care of it while I am at work making sure we have food on the table. Again, we're married, we become one, and we help each other. I can fix things or take care of the outside of the house or other "man" stuff.

About the kids, I will spend time with them like any father does. I am generally not going to worry about having to come home and babysit them, or take care of them in some way that is unreasonable.

I don't think my views are all that crazy.

(I feel you lennytuck)

[Bec caV]

Between the big baby boys and the multiple hair colors (I've done just about every hair color out there myself :) ), we're a lot alike, atipit :)

lennytuck, here on the Parenting message board, we kind of assume that SAHM is part of the equation. It's a job that never ends. You don't get to go home and forget about it. Taking care of kids then the husband... that's like adding another kid... and after running you ragged that you don't even get to sit down and eat lunch, the last thing you want is a husband that doesn't even want to help out or take the kids for an hour while you shower or nap.

[cay8099]

Okay, I guess I was wrong in seeing that you were willing to bend. I guess your views are ridged. I feel sorry for the poor woman you con into marrying you. Let me ask you this: Are you the only one at work? Do you do everyone's job all by yourself? Is your job a desk job where you have an assistant or a secretary? Even men who have manual labor jobs have a group of men around them working; helping each other out.

You basically expect one woman to do a job that it takes and entire village to do, and then clean house and feed you on top of it. Should she hold the spoon for you too?

[junx0r]

You are underestimating what women are capable of doing. They are capable of giving birth and raising children and taking care of the household and putting up with their dear husbands and making them happy. So they are as strong, if not stronger than men. It's just a different kind of strength.

atippit have you ever tried any pheromone perfumes on your husband? I have a friend who made miracles happen with them.

[cay8099]

Oh, I see. The only person who's happiness matters is yours. You seem to think if you buy her things and share your paycheck, she should be perfectly content to sit at home cleaning house and raising babies. While going to the gym 4 times a week, running errands and being your *****. You should settle for looks without brains, and capable of taking orders. Stepford trophy wife anyone.

I don't underestimate what women can do. I think you underestimate what it takes to make one happy, and you don't seem to be a strong enough man to manage that one.

[Willbearsmom]

lol After reading this thread I realized how lucky I am to have my husband! He brought home an article of how marriage was like back in the 1950's and said that it sounded great! So the next day I dressed up in 1950's garb, pearls and all and greeted him at the door with a huge cheesy smile and a Hi honey, how was work? I played the character the whole night, needless to say he hated it! Marriage is a partnership. Mom's don't stop being mom's after 5 o clock and you don't stop being a father. Your wife won't get a day off and neither should you. I believe you should be willing to help out as much as you can when you get home and that includes doing laundry, dishes, cooking etc. Motherhood is usually so much harder than a full time job. I've done both.

[jenn_0629]

I do my own laundry. If I get married and keep doing it, why get married?

Maybe, just maybe, you love and respect her? You love her for who she is and what she brings to your life....(Not the laundry, moron.) Let's say you somehow hurt yourself at work, and you couldn't work. Would you be the woman of the house? Will you cook for her, do her laundry, would you wash the dishes, take care of the kids 24/7? Would you be her *****?

Ummm, there is nothing that a woman could ask you to do with YOUR child that could be unreasonable. I think it is unreasonable of you to expect her to change 10-20 diapers a day. Get peed on, puked on, pooped on, and look beautiful. It is unreasonable of you to think that you get to make kids and not take care of them. That is a "wuss." I would say pussy, myself, but that's just me.

Seriously, the only reason the thread has kept on going is that you are flirting with the women on here. And the fact that any of them responded to it, makes me wonder about them. As charliesmommy said, Stop Feeding The Troll.

[junx0r]

The women who have responded have been very kind and civil, even in disagreement. I respect their opinions and would like to keep this thread clean and positive.

For the sake of everyone please do not post inflammatory comments or call anyone names. Thank you.

[jenn_0629]

Okay, take out the moron, the pussy, the *****.

Answer my question..

[freckles]

[QUOTE=junx0r;41758]Hey guys! I haven't been able to check in for the past couple of days. Thank you for sharing your opinions (good and bad).

I realize my initial list made me look like an emotionless monster. That's not the case. I just wanted to focus on the aspects that I thought should be different than the average relationship. It goes without saying that, as a human, I want to love my wife and be loved, I want to romance her, celebrate important dates with her, and let her know I think about her when I'm away. Generally, have a passionate relationship like any hot blooded person.

__________________________________________________ ______
OK....glad to see you have a heart. I was hoping you would respond. Perhaps you ARE great with the ladies. I mean, look how many responses you have had! lol

Has anyone ever heard of "REALM" perfume? It has pheremones and smells wonderful. Actually, the new Victorias Secret "Supermodel" perfume reminds me of Realm.

Just for the record: I apply to your list. I have a 1950's relationship with my hubby, sorta. I take out the trash and do home repairs, but anyway. The important thing I want to stress about this is that I do these things for my family because I WANT TO. I love cooking and etc. (sometimes) for my family because I want a healthy relationship with my kids by sitting at the dinner table and such. Not because these things are preferred by my partner.

I do hope you find her and when you do, buy her lots of perfume!

[cay8099]

http://dev.ourfuture.org/whatisaprogressive/search/node/man

Here we go. I've researched the "progressive man".

Basically the progressive man is a man who wants progress to take place. He wants to better the lives of his fellow man. He's a man who helps people regardless of age, race or sex. (Even if the person he helps is his wife with the laundry) He's a man who can be depended on.

George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, J.F.K.-All progressive men who strove to make the future better for all involved.

[Bec caV]

I have a rule, I don't hate anyone and if they're nice to me, I'll be nice back. Though say something that I don't like, I stop being nice.

That being said.... I showed my husband how to use the washer and dryer.

You keep sounding reasonable and then say stuff like why should I have to do my own laundry? Because... you made it dirty.
Like I said... if the woman is just a housewife and doesn't have to work, then cleaning and cooking is her job (unless you're nice and hire a maid.... ) but when she's a SAHM or a working woman, then damn it... you know the drill.

[freckles]

lol After reading this thread I realized how lucky I am to have my husband! He brought home an article of how marriage was like back in the 1950's and said that it sounded great! So the next day I dressed up in 1950's garb, pearls and all and greeted him at the door with a huge cheesy smile and a Hi honey, how was work? I played the character the whole night, needless to say he hated it! Marriage is a partnership. Mom's don't stop being mom's after 5 o clock and you don't stop being a father. Your wife won't get a day off and neither should you. I believe you should be willing to help out as much as you can when you get home and that includes doing laundry, dishes, cooking etc. Motherhood is usually so much harder than a full time job. I've done both.

This is great! Did you you have 2 seperate twin beds in the same room? lol

About the 5 o clock thing-I have mentioned this before......Your hubby is at work doing his part while you are a SAHM doing your part. When he gets home, you come together and be partners as much as possible. And when hubby changes a diaper, you don't OWE him anything. Maybe a thankyou, thankyou for changing your own child.

[junx0r]

bec cav - we agree more or less.

like I said before:
if she's working my demands go out the window, everything is shared.
if she's staying at home with no kids, then housework is not unreasonable.
if she's staying at home with kids, common sense is used, meaning i will have to take over so she can get away for a few hours.

My comment about laundry was referring to the early years of marriage (no kids) and her not having to work, which is kinda my ideal set up.

[atippit]

um, i wasn't saying i have difficulty in my sex life to the point i need pheromones. i was saying "i wish" as a statement meaning after kids it's kinda hard to do that especially with the baby in the room.

"I have a rule, I don't hate anyone and if they're nice to me, I'll be nice back. Though say something that I don't like, I stop being nice."

And ditto to this.

i could just start being rude to everyone i have different opinions with on the board just in case i may seem to be flirting back with the women that are nice to me. ^.^

[Bec caV]

You can seem like you're flirting with me.... I'm cool with it :p

Apparently it runs in my family. Friday my son (he's 3 and 1/2 months by the way) was flirting with a brunette in the Verizon store. She was cute too... I didn't stop him, I had to do something to keep him entertained while they were fixing my husband's phone.

[atippit]

:P I take flirting as compliments.

I'm just an extremely nice person, cause I'm a cancer, just not to stupid people.

[junx0r]

That's a great attitude, that's why you're fun to talk to atippit. I enjoyed talking to bec cav also, and everyone who's been nice. Haha I just might come to you guys for advice along the way.

[atippit]

junxOr, to be honest i've been nice to you because i know a lot of men like you, (yes i have male friends!), i could probably describe you and be at least 85% correct all the way down to your religious persuasion. but i've had over a dozen years of PR online, which includes way more skills than i can put down; one of which is 'reading' people... so i didn't find you at all "threatening" to the female super circle, i don't really think you are fishing for a wife on a parenting forum of already married women, and i also don't think you are flirting with me cause if you were i'd say you really need to boost up your skillz.

plus i don't really think you are a troll perse' since otherwise you'd really be trying to piss us off but instead you are trying to actually be nice, which apparently hasn't done you any good.

[junx0r]

Thanks, you're pretty correct. My aim is not to offend/berate/aggravate anybody. And of course if I wanted to flirt with women I'd be somewhere else. I'm curious as to how much more correct reading you can do.

(I don't understand the last part: being nice hasn't done me any good?)

[Bec caV]

I will admit, at first I thought you were trolling... since you've continued to post, I passed on that thought.

Though this would be a seriously weird place to flirt to pick up women... we all have kids! :p

atippit.... I'm a Libra, I flirt with everyone regardless of their gender. It's a flirty, social, sign *evil grin* Though face to face I'm aloof, it's a whole lot easier being social on a message board for me. No one can stare at my nose. (I have a nose hang up, I think mine is too turned up and looks funny)

[atippit]

i meant you being nice on here still has women riled up against you. and i really don't feel like getting into that whole thing... i was only trying to say that this is why i initially responded and why i continue to be nice.

ooooooooooooh Libras... both of my boys are libras.

i think we all have hangups about something. i hated my smile for the longest time, HATED, it's a little better now but i still don't like it because i want teeth like Tom Cruz. lol. perfectly perfect white rows of them.... of course then i'd have to stop smoking... and drinking coffee... which will probably never happen. but my point is! you shouldn't get hung up on a feature while being social, i'm positive the person on the other end has one too.

besides you are a libra, you're supposed to be snobby aren't you? :P

[Bec caV]

Give up coffee! That's blasphemy!

I don't know why I have a nose hang up... I try not to... and I would never consider having a nose job even though I hate it so much.

I'm not snobby though! Not really... honestly... I'm not.... okay maybe a little :p

[freckles]

[QUOTE=junx0r;41758]Hey guys! I haven't been able to check in for the past couple of days. Thank you for sharing your opinions (good and bad).

I realize my initial list made me look like an emotionless monster. That's not the case. I just wanted to focus on the aspects that I thought should be different than the average relationship. It goes without saying that, as a human, I want to love my wife and be loved, I want to romance her, celebrate important dates with her, and let her know I think about her when I'm away. Generally, have a passionate relationship like any hot blooded person.

__________________________________________________ __________
Glad to hear you have a heart after all. Still sounds like you are putting yourself way ahead of her. I hope you find your Ms. 1950.

[jenn_0629]

IrishMom said it perfectly.

[atippit]

Maybe I just see this from a different perspective for which I'll more than likely be bashed or hated for.

For one, my husband works nights, he does not work 50-60hrs a week, but he works in a field that he constantly has to think about it being completely removed from the face of the earth. When my husband asked me to move over here 2000miles away from everything I was used to we agreed to certain things, we had made a Pact so to speak. I was going to stay at home, keep up the house, and at the time home school my 10yr old. He was going to go to work and provide for all of us, help me with certain aspects of the homeschooling (music, arts, math, history).

Well having a ten year old and him being completely self sufficient (other than the schooling) there wasn't any reason or excuse I had not to clean the house and keep things organized. My husband left for work at 3:30 at the time, was at work at 5 (yes, almost two hour commute to keep me in a city so i wouldn't undergo culture shock), and got home at around 1-2am. Then he woke up around noon and helped me with the schooling and went back to work, rinse repeat. Then I got pregnant, so he got a SECOND job because HIS job was that he was to provide for the family so he got a total of 4, yes 4 hours of sleep a night working TWO full time jobs to make sure ends met while still doing the commute and I rarely if ever got to see him. He was offered over 20,000k a year more to move while I was pregnant and I didn't feel like moving then and being far from family again so he passed it up even though it was somewhere he really wanted to live. He had sold all of the artifacts he found throughout his years since childhood, all of his musical equipment, everything to make sure we kept afloat in all the hard times because that is my husband.

So what do I say then? Go do your own laundry, I don't have time to make your dinner, I don't care if you work two jobs and have almost a 4hr round-trip commute, I don't care if you're tired, I'm TIRED. I don't care what you've given up what about me? me? me?

I'm sorry, I can't do that, it is so far out of my nature I don't even know how anyone could have an attitude like that.

My son is six months old, he lays down for three naps a day and those three naps afford me time to myself and time for my husband and I if it's when he's home. He goes to sleep at 9pm and since my husband doesn't get home until late I have at LEAST 3-4 hours to clean the house (without vacuuming). Throwing some laundry in and tossing dishes in a dishwasher isn't all that difficult especially if you keep up your house and make sure people are rinsing off dishes or putting their own clothes in the dirty laundry. So.... here my husband is at work and what am I expected to do sit on my but for 3-4 hours so when he comes home and the house is a mess and toys are everywhere, dishes aren't done, laundry isn't finished, etc and I just say "Oh, I didn't feel like doing it, in fact YOU should do it because I've had too much to deal with today and you need to step up and be a man!"

:: cough ::

And okay lets say a year, two, three years down the road when the baby is no longer a baby but can walk and play by himself and/or his brother and/or his brother can watch him and then what?? What's my excuse then? I'm a woman, hear me roar! I want to sit online on parenting and complain so why don't you go vacuum??

My husband doesn't expect me to do s***, and because of this he appreciates everything that I do and also for this reason do I not mind doing the dishes, the laundry, making dinner, or taking care of the kids. I don't want to work, I could work, but I'd rather stay at home and so I take pride in my "Job" and I do it well. But I never, ever, expect my husband to do a damn thing because he works really hard at his job and if it ever came to it I know he'd make any sacrifice, work any number of jobs, do whatever he had to do to take care of us and so he deserves the same respect. I'll do whatever I have to do, whatever I can do, even if it means balancing my son on my hip with my bare foot on the counter while washing out his bottles and helping my 11yr old with division so he can get an extra half hour of sleep.

I'm not saying that a husband shouldn't be there to help out if their wives need it, or that he shouldn't be there to care for his children, I am just beginning to seriously abhor this self righteous attitude about what SAHM's deserve and how the man should go out there and work and come home and clean house and take care of kids etc etc how would you feel if your husband expected all of that and more out of you?

So this guy has some random ideas of what he'd like his future wife to be. You seriously don't think that there are women out there that want nothing more than a man to pay for everything, let them shop like crazy, never work again, and be able to do whatever they want in respect to keeping their house clean and making sure baby is ok??? ha.

Maybe I'm one of the only odd woman out dealing with all this Dad / Husband bashing around here. I'm proud to be a SAHM, I'm proud to take care of my home, my children and my husband. I don't see what is so wrong with that.

[cay8099]

I do the dishes, and the laundry, and the dusting. I don't expect my husband to do that stuff. I'm not the best house keeper in the world (my MIL says so), but I do what I can to make sure my husband has clean underwear, and towels. My kids are well taken care of, and loved. Like I said earlier a SAHM should take care of most of that stuff, but the fact is that this guy doesn't even think he should have to help raise his kids. That right there is flat out balogna. It's not unreasonable to expect a man who is home to pay attention to his kids. Fathers don't babysit their own kids. When you baysit you get to return those kids to their parents; there is no returning that which sprang from your loins. Junx0r thinks he should be able to come home sit on the couch and do absolutely nothing. When you are married life becomes about making someone else happy, and junx0r needs to learn to be less selfish.

To me a wife should not have to mother her husband. In other words she shouldn't have to pick up after him, she shouldn't have to pick his dirty socks up off the floor, or take his dirty dishes to the kitchen beacause he left them all of the living room. Making your wife pick up after you shows (IMHO) a huge lack of respect for everything she does.

To me a husband is a man who does everything he can to keep his family afloat. He works 2 jobs if he has too, but he doesn't shirk the responsibilities of home. He has a willingness to help the wife he knows doesn't get time off. He'll run the sweeper if he sees it needs done, he helps put away laundry, and he shows respect by not leaving messes for her to clean up.

Just because a woman is capable of running the world all by herself; doesn't mean she should have too.

[atippit]

i completely understand what you are saying cay, and agree with you, i'm more meaning the attitude of how things are posted where it's almost demanding of the husband, almost to the point of belittling what he does, that it's all about the SAHM and nothing about what they do that grates on my nerves. My husband picks up after himself and he helps around if he sees things that need to be helped out with (obviously not kids i don't see them as "helping with" he's the dad and he should be the dad and not a 'helper') etc.

it's just the attitude, it's just the self righteous WHAT ABOUT ME that is just... /shrugs

i never said i agreed with everything JunxOr said, i just said that there are women that would want nothing more than to have that life and also that i don't think his opinions will stay the way they are once he actually finds someone.

[cay8099]

I have a feeling that many of the women who have that attitude have husbands who expect them to do everything; while the husband thinks he shouldn't be expected to do much of anything when at home. Which Causes resentment.

[atippit]

i can see that, but i don't see why they should take it out on anyone else. when we come on here with our views and opinions the last thing we want is for someone to shoot us down and call us names, especially when we're trying to be nice. and then when others are nice to the person and try to change their view or show them the light of day they get shot down for it saying they are flirting with said person because they are male. then to have an attitude that anything differing from this perspective makes you a loser (and/or otherwise) is ridiculous.

[atippit]

i don't know what this 'progressive' word means. i figured it meant a more "yes dear" guy that just moped around like eore dragging his heels behind his wife or something, but i'm apparently wrong.

whatever you see fit for your marriage and whatever works for you is fine, that's great! that works for you. what i was ranting about is it is not what works for me and i'm personally not like that and nor do i consider myself a slave, any less than my husband, or beaver cleaver, a robot, a stepford wife, or what have you.

you have your way, others have their ways, and you can't go beating people over the head with words saying they are wrong cause it's not something you like. everyone's marriage is completely different.

[junx0r]

In post #82, atippit basically said everything I wanted to say all along, only she said it better than I could. that's exactly the kind of dynamic I'm looking for, where we're not fighting for power or control, everyone's proud of their role in the relationship.

Obviously if she's raising 2 kids with the husband almost never helping around the house, she's got it figured out, she's using her nurturing skills to the fullest. Her husband is what I aspire to be: he's proud of his family, puts them before himself, and is using his breadwinning skills to the fullest also.

Others who have different arrangements, I'm not judging you, if you're happy, I'm happy.

atippit's relationship is the one I'd like mine to be like, more or less.

Again, this is just my opinion, and it only applies to my reality. It is possible to have a totally different arragement that makes you happy.

[atippit]

hah, i wouldn't say that so fast, junxOr. my husband does do dishes, laundry, and he plays baseball with the eldest and changes diapers, he makes dinner sometimes and sometimes he gets into these anal cleaning modes and one morning i'll wake up and the place is more spotless than i could do it just cause he felt like it. it's just that i don't expect him to, i don't ask him to, he should just naturally want to spend time with the boys and if he feels like washing the dishes or saying "hey baby why don't you go look at the crossword i'll get this" by all means.

if my husband ever, EVER, expected me to do something or treated me like women cay must have been talking about, he would rue the day.

i was only justifying my idea and my lifestyle are as relevant as a person who wants to cut everything down fifty fifty. and i didn't feel it was right to throw names around.

[Bec caV]

I had a whole long post typed up earlier... but lost it because I forgot to copy it and the system had logged me out :(
However, the gist of it is...

No matter how you cut it, raising children as a stay at home parent is a full time job. However, the work outside of the home parent has to give the stay at home one a break every now and again. Because when your a SAHM you don't get weekends, or get to go away from the job... even when the kids are asleep.

It's not so hard to do a few little things every so often. For a man to every so often throw a load of laundry in the washer when the hamper is full while the wife is putting the kids to bed isn't too much to wish for. It's the sign of a loving relationship. Or maybe bring home a pizza so the wife doesn't have to cook (or fire up the grill as my husband says :) ), or even do the dishes. Especially if you have a dishwasher... it's not hard to stick the dishes in and turn it on.

I think a lot of people were put off by the 'babysit the kids' comment. Ward and June Cleaver were a myth... Ward had absolutely no contact with the kids in that show... well barely none, he was not a good representation of fathers even in the 50's. He just sat smoking his pipe in the living room and only spoke to the children when June felt that a problem had to be solved and it could only be solved by a male influence.
A good father doesn't feel he's ever babysitting his own kids, and a good husband doesn't mind pitching in even when his wife is a housewife. It doesn't have to be 50/50 when the wife stays home, but just to show you care.... sometimes splitting up some of the duties can make everyone feel happier.

It also seems unfair the idea that the working parent gets to come home from work and do nothing at all, just sit in front of the TV and enjoy themselves. The stay at home parent is going to feel like they never get any time off while the other gets all the time they want. Even just putting the kids to bed on a weekend can go a long way, or doing that load of laundry. Like I said before it doesn't have to be much, just something and usually... without being asked to do it makes it all the more heartfelt.

Now if your husband is working two full time jobs, that's another story all together, I could never expect my husband to help out as he would be working just as much as me.

I think we can all agree that the man who just comes home and plops on the couch and never takes interest in the kids or the wife is a bit well... self centered and probably needs to change his ways. Depending on the situation and the people, there are varying degrees of how much is done and where. There is no right answer because the answer is what ever works for that couple. But we're seeing extremes here and that's what's cheesing people off.

[kelly23]

Wow, this thread grew so much since I was on here last. Everyone really has good points. Junxor, I hope we have given you a lot to think about and I hope it has made you change some of your ideas about marriage and kids.

[atippit]

agreed on both things, your right, it's just because it's extremes and i think this person has enough information to think about. back to talking to other 'parents'.

[mommyslilmonster]

wow! um good luck with the im a man i am wired to hunt and kill thing.... looks like your gonna be single for a while... although there is nothing wrong about the fact that you want to be the supporter, thats great, the only thing that will be a problem is the parenting issue, its a team effort you were able to make the baby you should be able to take care of him or her as well... its alot of work for one person to handle, she might as well be a single mom, i garuntee yousay that to a women she'll laugh at you and tell you your crazy.....

[eawise1227]

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. By the way would you like to get married?? LOL J/K. I am married and my husband is 32 and I am 22 we just had a baby after being married for a year what a suprise. Anyway, I agree with you theory of the man working and the woman staying home. I think it is a good deal, because being a house wife is just as challenging as working outside the home the difference is, is that being a housewife is from the time you wake up until the time you go to bed. Your job maybe be from the time you punch in until you punch out. As far as you hanging out with your friends and not wanting to take on as much responsibility with children is fine. Just make sure you don't have children while you feel that way because you will become very resentful. Once you have a baby with a person you love nothing else matters your friends or your hobbies. Also when you have a baby you wont feel that feeding him/her or changing diapers or bathing them is a responsibilty, you will feel that it is fun and rewarding. Taking care of yourself is one thing and I agree that just because women have babies doesnt mean that the romance goes out the door but, lets not be so shallow. If you truley love that person it doesnt matter what they wear because they will look just as sexy in sweat pants as they do in an evening gown. But, until you find that person that you are emotionally and spirtually attracted to you will only look for the physical attributes and it will never go any further than that. So lighten up and let nature take it's course. And stop looking! She will eventually fall on top of you when you least expect it.

[BirminghamMa]

I think most of your wants in a woman and marriage are great. There are a few things that bother me though and I will address them below. I am a strongly opinionated woman and sometimes I am blunt and come across as mean. I am not trying to offend you just expressing what I believe would work better for you.


"I am not against having kids, but she will be the one dealing with them most of the time. That simply the way of the world. I am a man, I am wired to hunt and kill, not nurse a baby. Blame nature."

1) My husband helps me take care of our son. He is also active duty military but still finds time to help me out. And you cant because?

"I take care of my body, and so should you. I go to the gym 4 times a week. I do not smoke, drink, or do drugs. Letting yourself go is disrespectful to me and to yourself."

2) Ok seriously. When I woman just has a kid you can expect her to magic have a 6 pack 5 days later. Plus being a new mom takes up a lot of time and since your post above says you will be minimal in helping dont expect her to be in awesome shape. In stead you should love her body no matter how it looks.

"We must have at least one minor fight per week, and one major fight every 6 months. This helps release tension and rekindle the fire. Besides, makeup sex just rules."

3) Fights happen. You cant stop them. Pray you never marry a woman who has strong opinions (like me) if this is what you want.

"Do not ask me where I was, track me down, keep tabs on me, or other such annoying behavior. I am allowed to hang out with my friends within reason, meaning as long as I am considerate, and you don't feel abandoned."

4) As long as you dont give her a reason to be suspicious then you shouldnt have to worry. Not all of us are psychos.

"I am aware of my appearance and try to dress well, I try to look sharp all the time, and so should you."

5) I wear sweats and t shirts most of the time (unless I am in public), Im not going to dress nice to clean the house and you shouldnt expect your wife to either. Unless you want most of her nice clothes stained with baby food and spit up.

[H.Starr]

junx0r,
your ideal marriage sounds exactly like what my husband and I have. I don't think you're being unreasonable, you're the one who has to live with a woman forever, you should have what you want, and vice versa. The trick is finding a woman who agrees with your opinions and demands, and with whose you also agree. My husband and I just got lucky with eachother, and I hope that you will too. :)
I also understand that while some of the women were offended or irritated by some of the things you said (and I understand their view) they didn't quite understand exactly what you meant.
Basically, I'm with ya, brother. Go for what you want.

[junx0r]

Hey guys thanks for the replies. It seems those of you like eawise, birminghamma and hstarr are mostly supportive because you really took the time to read what I'm saying and understand how I feel. The things I listed are just a vague guideline of how I see things; of course I will help out with the kids as much as possible and I won't expect my wife to look like her former self within a month.

I think what all I've been trying to say from the beginning is that I want a woman who would love her husband to be the breadwinner while she's the housewife.

[amaranta]

i do not agree with u saying that u can have kids but will rarely take care of them. if u put the sperm in her you have a responsibility too! im tired of men thinking that just because us women are the ones that give birth were the ones that have to do all the work and take care of the kids, mother is the same thing as father. u worked together to create the child so now work together to take care of the child!!!!

[atlasVI]

Junox, I do not think you are wrong to want all those things on your list (with maybe the fighting one being the exception), because I want that too . Why get married if he won't do the laundry? I will gladly be the breadwinner and do the "manly" chores. And when I get home I expect a delicious, nutritious meal made from stratch in a clean kitchen and breakfast nook. After all he didn't do anything at all during the day and I worked all day. And I don't want to bothered by a messy house or noisy children. He should take care of that because that is his job. Now since I had the baby, I am going to need a lot of time to get back in shape and I prefer dancing as my mode of exercise. So when I go out dancing I don't want to be bothered with calls of "where are you" or "when are you coming home?" Those calls are so annoying, he should feel grateful that I am out getting in shape, who cares if I am out to 3 a.m in the morning five days a week. Besides he can go buy whatever he likes with my money -- I am that selfless. I really don't know why I am not considered a saint.


Now if he wants to go exercise, I will let him do it in the garage for 30 minutes max (men don't need as much exercise to stay in shape as us ladies do) that way he can continue watching the kids while I take a much deserved nap. He should feel loved and appreciated because I let him exercise so he can continue to look good for me. And if needs a break from the kids, I may be able to babysit for an hour or so he can run to the store or do some other errand I don't want to do. And if for some reason, he feels overwhelmed by all he has to do (although I do not know why, he doesn't have to worry about money - that is my job) he shouldn't bother me with that too. Isn't that what his guy friends are for? Are maybe his mother or father?

I totally get your ideas I want that too! I mean who wouldn't want a slave.

[H.Starr]

Atlas, while your post made me laugh, I think you completely misunderstood what junxor is saying.
He is a man, he speaks his thoughts in the simplest possible way, and it makes perfect sense to him. To us women, it might not sound quite how he meant it.
I have this problem all the time with my husband, and so have learned to interpret man-speak.
I do not think junxor is asking for anything unreasonable at all. And he's not quite the "male pig" that he may come across as.

[H.Starr]

IrishMom, did you even read his original post?? He's NOT married! He's NOT looking for advice on how to fix his marriage. He's saying "This is what I want (WHEN/IF I GET MARRIED) Am I asking too much?"

And the answer is NO. He's not. He just has to find a woman who wants the same things.

And as for not giving him enough credit, you misunderstood what I'm saying. Men say things in the simplest way possible. It makes the most sense that way. Women have the tendancy to read too far into what is said.

For example, if my husband catches me on a bad day and says "Hey babe, you look really pretty today" I might come back with "Oh, and I look ugly every other day?" That is not at all what he was saying. He said exactly what he was thinking, exactly how he was thinking it, but because I am a female, and females run on emotions more than rationality, I twisted his meaning.

And that is what I think a lot of women are doing with Junxor here. He wants to work, wants his future wife to stay home and do the cooking and the cleaning and whatnot. What's so wrong with that? There are a million housewives all over the place. He's not saying "be my slave b*tch because I'm the MAN!" like some people are thinking. My husband works. I stay home. I cook, I clean, I do laundry, I raise our son. And I wouldn't want it any other way. That is what junxor is looking for.

Everyone here is just in too big of a rush to get all offended and "how DARE he say that?!?!" Relax, ladies, he's not being offensive, or a pig, or even irrational. You just have to hear what he's actually saying for exactly what it is, not what it COULD be if we all twist his words around.

I think the fact that he knows exactly what he wants is going to help him in finding the right woman. Then she doesn't marry him and find out later he's not who she thought he was. He knows what he wants, and I hope he finds it.

Junxor - I'm sure that you will. You just have to find a woman who can hear your words, not the two conversations thing. (what you're saying and what she THINKS you're saying) That will be the hardest part for you, I'm sure.
Also, I hope you know I was not insulting you or talking down about you when I said you say things simply. Its just a fact (and a good thing). Men are simple, women make everything complicated. :)

[Japanee mom]

Hi! I'm a Japanese wife. What you are expecting for your wife-to-be is like Japanese men expecting for their spouses. Although things are changing. My opinion is not all women are good or happy about stay at home , child rearing, houseworks. Some women want to have their own world and work outside homes.
So you should find such a women who feels happy ,stay at home and do the domestic chores and rely on your salary. Those women still exist here in Japan.
Please just don't rush into marriage!
I mean another problem. I am suprised with the high divorce rate in the U.S.
divorce might be such a pain for children.
So you should be careful to choose the right eternal partner.
From Japanese wife

[atlasVI]

H.Starr, no I think I got his message right. I just don't think he understands how incredibly selfish his expectations are -- I mean I would truly love if my husband did everything so I can enjoy the 'fun' parts of being a parent without any of the responsibility and sacrifice that comes with it. And I truly do get what he wants. The only difference between my post and his – no man would sign up for it while a woman might actually sign up for his game plan. My advice to him: look for a woman with low self-esteem, a desperate woman (probably has a kid or three already) or a woman from another country, most likely a poorer country that wants a better life for her kids.

[H.Starr]

Atlas, My marriage is actually pretty similar to what junxor is looking for.

My self esteem is fine, far from desperate, no kids (until after I married my husband), and born and raised in the US.

My husband works, I stay home with our son. I cook, clean, do laundry. Sometimes the house isn't spotless because our son was being difficult that day and my husband understands that. But I would never just let everything fall apart, it gets done the minute I have the chance. He always thanks me when he comes home to a nice clean house. He does yardwork and fixes things. I'm not the outdoorsy type, whereas he loves it. I am preparing to buy an SUV, because neither of us would be caught dead in a minivan. He gives me breaks and time off and helps with our son, plays with him daily, but for the most part, since I'm home all day and he's not, I'm the one raising him. My husband is only home at night. Obviously if I wasn't raising our son, he'd be abandoned and neglected most hours of the day, so that only makes sense. My husband has to do PT daily, and I've been fighting like hell to drop all my pregnancy weight. We're both beginning to get into better shape than we were. I've started going tanning to try to cover stretch marks. Some days I don't have time to shower and do have to wear sweatpants, but I do my best to be dressed by the time he gets home if I can. He understands sometimes there is just not enough time in the day, but he wouldn't appreciate it very much to come home and find me in pajamas every single day. We never fight, but we do have minor disagreements now and then, and I think it strengthens our bond that we can get through them easily and unscathed. He really never goes anywhere non-work-related without me, so the keeping tabs thing isn't a problem we have.

But I mean, honestly, the whole typical gender roles thing, is not that uncommon. I don't want to get a "real job." I love staying home with my son and taking care of my husband. And it has nothing to do with self esteem or desperation. My husband always compliments me and shows his appreciation for what I do, he's not a barbaric totalitarian leader or something ridiculous. He just does the "man things" and I do the "woman things." And it works out perfectly for us both.

[atlasVI]

H.Starr, you admit, even you cannot live up to his ridiculous standards and yet you still defend him. Does you husband “babysit” your kids when you need a break? I am not saying with modifications and adjustments to his game plan that it wouldn’t be selfish plan. But just going on his list, it is a super selfish plan. And by the tone of his list (although he even admitted sounded heartless) he sounded as if the woman got off the list he would feel betrayed and like he shouldn’t have married her because she was being disrespectful to him. I think what he wants is not wrong, but he is a grown man and should be able to decipher want from need by now. And I think by coming to this site in particular, I think he is looking for a gauge on how likely he can come to obtaining his wants. And by the by, I really think if he wants that list down to the button – no compromise, he can achieve it with one of those three options. Even with you, it would be a compromise for him. Sometimes he would come home to you in sweats and based on his list that wouldn’t work for him.

[KayLady]

Wow junx - I don't think you're being unreasonable as long as your to-be wife knows all this up front. I say there's nothing wrong with playing a role as long as that's the role you want to play. I have a hunch you'll be single for a while though . . . but the fact that you tie your dignity to the kind of car you are in, that's just sad!

[KayLady]

You're right Atlas - no marriage will work out well with too many expectations. Nobody's perfect, what is he going to do when his 'traditional' wife falls off her pedestal? There always has to be room for compromise and his list leaves none.