Vaccines?

[mommywarrior]

I just have a question on the whole vaccines cause autism debate. I know there are a lot of people who firmly believe that vaccines caused autism in their children but are there any children who were NOT vaccinated who have autism? It seems to me if one exists then that would solve the debate right there. But if there isn't one, that too sheds some serious light on the matter.

[Newmom!]

Unfortunately, if such a child is identified, it would not prove anything. All it would show is that Autism is not ONLY caused by Vaccines.

All I know is that I am not going to give my child the smallpox vaccine. Not because of any side effects of the vaccine, but because the vaccine was so wide spread the last few generations, that children no longer need the vaccine, because smallpox has been eradicated. If everyone vaccinated their children, despite any real or perceived risks, future generations would not need as many vaccinations as many of the diseases would be completely eradicated.

The debate should be: are the risks to the self/child now worth it for the greater good later?

http://www.cdc.gov/features/smallpoxeradication/

[lismom2]

The debate should be: are the risks to the self/child now worth it for the greater good later?



Not in my opinion. Sacrificing one generations health for the potentially 'better' health of a future generation is not something I am willing to agree with.

I also do not agree with vaccination policies to enter public school. Fully vaccinate your children, give them only one, or don't vaccinate at all. Any way you really look at it, my families health decisions are not the 'public's' business ;).

The opening question about vaccines and autism ...meh. I think they can contribute to certain cases, but it wasn't a factor in our vaccination decision.

[E2001]

Yes, the British doctor retracted it because it was discovered that his so-called methods for the study were completely corrupted and unscientific and could not be reproduced in any other study.

Vaccines are extremely important, and it is extremely important to continue giving them to future generations, because many infectious diseases that have been "eradicated" in the U.S. are making a comeback due to a decline in vaccines. Smallpox is the ONLY one that has been completely eradicated! Just look a whooping cough (the pertussis of the DPT vaccine)! Several states have had epidemic-level outbreaks this year - a resurgence in a disease that most people think has been eradicated. And vaccinating older children helps protect infants who are too young to have the vaccines. Diphtheria (of the DPT shot) is still widespread in developing countries and is a horrible way for a child to die - a membrane forms in the throat and the throat swells shut. These diseases don't just make children sick, they kill them at alarmingly high rates.

I don't want anyone's child to die like that. Vaccines are essential to providing what is called "herd immunity" - everyone is vaccinated and protected. But when sections of the "herd" of community are not immunized, it allows the infectious diseases to surge back. Just look at what happened after the Soviet Union broke apart and the Soviet government was no longer there to require the vaccinations - diphtheria exploded back in those countries until they could get new vaccination programs going.

Finally, these diseases are rare in the U.S. and other developed and industrialized countries because of vaccines - but in poorer and underdeveloped nations, they are FAR more common and DEADLY. And international travel means that the diseases are being brought back here - and if we and our children are not immunized, then our bodies are receptive to those infectious diseases.

[luckiest]

Couple of general things and couple of replies to the above poster --

Smallpox is not the only disease to have been declared eradicated in the United States. Polio has been declared eradicated in the entire Western Hemisphere (no wild cases since 1985), as has rubella (declared eradicated by the CDC in 2005). Pertussis will never be eradicated because neither the disease nor the vaccine provides lifelong immunity. The outbreaks that we see have nothing at all to do with childhood vaccination rates, they have to do with adult vaccination rates. The vaccine wears off after roughly ten years, and is not on the recommended schedule beyond age 10-12, so most of us in our 20s are not protected. Pertussis has always followed a very predictable cyclical pattern - it peaks about every 5-6 years. The last outbreak was 2005-2006, and we're currently experiencing one.

On a personal level, when deciding whether or not to vaccinate, which vaccines to choose and when, I looked at each vaccine individually. The incidence rates of almost every single disease we vaccinate against are incredibly low. Yes, they are low because we vaccinate against them. But because the odds of my child catching a vaccine preventable disease are so unbelievably low, I have no problems waiting until after the first year, when her immune system is more mature, to start vaccinating. That way we are still participating in the ever-important herd immunity, but we also aren't starting the day she's born.

There are a few vaccines we will avoid completely -- chickenpox, for a variety of reasons. Hep A because it is such a mild disease, most children who catch it never know they have it, and for adults it's more of a nuisance illness. The MMR caused me to have a life-long chronic pain illness, so we may pass on that one as well. And probably polio, because it hasn't been on my side of the globe in my lifetime. Hepatitis B will wait until adolescence. I wish a pertussis-only vaccine existed for children, because right now it is only available in the DTaP, and I have no interest in vaccinating against diphtheria (in the US there are about 5 cases a year, with many years passing between cases, and while it's a serious illness in developing countries, it's less serious where medical care is available) or tetanus (virtually all of the 50-100 cases per year are in adults, who get the vaccine when they get a puncture wound anyway).

I basically just think that everyone needs to do their research and decide what is right for their family. For some that's following the recommended schedule to a T, for others it's avoiding them altogether. There can be no right answer when there are risks associated with both sides.

[charliesmommy]

I hope you and your kids are as lucky as your profile name.

[afeller]

Many non-vax parents I know would be thrilled to see a study comparing health of non-vax and vax kids in the US. I do not believe any are in the works as of yet but it would be a great study to see.
Honestly I think that the debate needs to move away from the autism only concerns. I do believe parents who see drastic declines in their children after vax but I am also concerned about long term health concerns. Are there increased immune disorders in children and adults due to vax? Questions along those lines. I'll tell you that the chicken poz vax is the one that put me over the top. I mean they are selling it as a deadly disease that kills everyone and the world is going to fall apart if we are not all vaxxed (repeatedly) for it.
I think people should look at the issue as what you are willing to risk; I am willing to deal with chicken pox and rubella. I also do not feel my health or my families health is a public policy decision, at least not in this country.

[SenoraBella]

Vaccination bypasses the normal body's line of defense, the oral/nasal route, and introduces a lot of ingredients into the bloodstream. Have you ever requested the studies of vaccinations and/or the ingredients within them? If hydrogenated oils, for example, build up in your body over time, what do you think that vaccinations could do? Yes, vaccination has demonstrated successful "immunity" of viral/bacterial infections for a time, but then boosters are needed; but also, consider the ingredients that are in them. Suggested reading: Dr. Sears, "The Vaccine Book"; "Emerging Viruses: Nature, Accident, or Intentional." Suggested information: Call the manufacturers for a report on each vaccine that they produce, noting ingredients and side effects mentioned/not mentioned; try to find case studies of any vaccine-related event; research if people who get meningitis, for example, were vaccinated with the meningo-coccal vaccine but contracted a different strain. Notice the difficulties that babies have during their vaccination schedule, but also note the difficulties in the elderly (Alzheimer's?).

Lastly, when you vaccinate, you are exposing them 100% to something(s) more than just the weakened/killed item, but when you do not vaccinate, you are not exposing them to anything, 0% (you do have to "wait and see" if the virus/bacteria will be contracted). Remember, the news does not always tell you if the person who got something, ie: measles, was already vaccinated. And, a lot of what's vaccinated against is not life-threatening. Medical and holistic approaches have greatly aided people with disease/infections.