Help! My 5 yo blatantly lies...

[supermomwannabe]

I was wondering if anyone could help. There a few other posts about lying but my sons case is a little different and this one is actually three-fold. He seems to think that if he lies about whatever it is he has done then he won't get in trouble and then he gets upset when he gets in trouble, go figure. Now, at first I thought this was a relatively minor thing, like little white lies, until it went from catching him jumping on the couch to lying for his friends to lying about hitting his 8 mo sister. It's not like these things are presented to me at a later date, my husband and I witness EVERYTHING. He has this problem in daycare too and he'll be starting kindergarten in 1 week so I want to start something now.

Problem #1: He does things he knows will get him in trouble.
Problem #2: He lies about what he did so he won't get in trouble.
Problem #3: He has started hitting his sister claiming he's just trying to get her attention.

We've tried talking about it to make sure he understands, we've tried taking things away from him, rewarding good behavior, spanking, not allowing school field trips and many others. I'm at a loss. Nothing seems to work. Yesterday when I picked him up from daycare his teacher wanted me to have a chat with her about this and she is worried that it is effecting his releationship with his friends and that it will be a huge problem once he is in kindergarten. Then in the car on the way home I heard a loud slap and my 8 mo started screaming. I knew he hit her but I asked him what happened anyway and he said "nothing, she just started crying". So when my husband got home we all had a chat about what's going on. My son was very upset that he was going to be punished some how but not at all ashamed for what he had done, absolutely no remorse. When we were discussing possible punishments he continued to push our limits by countering everything we said with some kind of smart remark "if you put me in time-out I will just get up and walk around" or "if you send me to my room I will just play with my toys in there".

I have an idea of where this all stems from but I don't know what else to do to try and break this. My mom had a similar issue with my brother when he was little and when he'd get in to trouble she would to make him pick up all of the sweet gum balls in our yard, and it worked. We don't have a sweet gum tree but I can't think of anything similar that we could do. Any ideas are welcome.

[robynlll]

I am sorry to say this, but I think you need to beat his little butt! I dont think all moms should spank their kids, but with issues like you got maybe a lil slap will accomplish something. If this doesnt get in control, you might have a criminal or psychopath in your hands. He sounds as if he needs therapy or something, nothing to do with how he is raised..some people are just born evil or bad. Maybe it is just a simple thing ,like he likes to control things, or likes to see reaction when he hits or lies. My son is 2 and he doesnt have a big vocab, but he likes to hit everything and everyone. I let him go out in the yard, by himself, and just let his energy run out. I give him sticks so he can beat up trees and rocks to throw(not towards anything or anyone) and he usually is mellowed out after an hour or so doing that. Maybe he likes the kind of attention he is given when he is being punished. I doubt I was very helpful, but I am just throwing some ideas out there.

[MommaC]

First of all, realize all three problems are completely normal for his age group. Second, on behalf of society, "Thank you for doing everything in your power to help corral this behavior." Finally, here are my thoughts on how to handle it. The punishment should INCREASE for lying. For instance, if he hits he gets one spank. If he hits AND lies about it, he gets two. The consequences should be very carefully explain and consistently carried out. If you're not choosing to spank, lieing earns 2 extra minutes in time out. When he lies, tell him, "That is a lie. That is not the truth. Because you lied, you have to be punished more." The "reward" for telling the truth won't be the absence of consequences for the original misdeed. Instead you'll say, "Thank you for being honest. I'm so glad you won't have to have extra spankings for lieing. Since you told the truth, you only have to have one spanking for jumping on the couch." He'll see that you respect him for telling the truth and connect the dots that telling the truth means less pain in the end. As in all things, your persistence is going to pay off. DO NOT BACK DOWN. Follow through EVERY time, and don't let him see how emotionally invested you are or how weary of discipline you are becoming. You're the mom, and these are the rules. You will only get the behavior you desire if you INSIST upon it. Good luck!

[robynlll]

that is such good advice, I am going to use it if I need it. I am a single mom of a young child and most of the time too tired to be consistant with my punishments. one day I let him do it, especially after working all day, next day I might get mad. and I can see in his eyes he is confused. thanks

[Esanchezyn]

you seriously need to nip it in the bud, right now...sounds like he's a lil rebel without a cause and he's acting out because you are paying a little too much attention to his lil sister and he is mad at the world right now! I'm a new parent too so I don't know how to handle that situation...if it was me(since I was a guy once) you would have to put the fear of god into me, but also take personal time with me...some one on one time...and explain to me that you don't love me any less! ...if that doesnt work, wash his mouth off with ajax everytime he lies and he will learn eventually..if not, then he will be too dumb to get away with any serious crimes when he is a teenager and will stay in your house for the rest of your days and you can moniter his daily activities for the rest of his life...in time, you will develop your skills...Practice makes perfect!!! Hope my advice works, because Robynlll doesn't know what she's talking about!!!

[mommyof2boyz]

hi i have read all this and i dont agree with half of the advice i have read ok your son is only 5 and with a little sister at that so he might be feeling a bit left out seeing that a 8 mo old requires alot of attention.we had a lieing problem in our home also. i think timeout works it may take a while for him to get it but he will pick a place in your home where his timeouts are supervised like the kitchen floor use red tape and put an X in the spot where you want him to sit that way hs knows that the X is time out and if he gets up keep putting him back no matter how long it takes then when he has been in time out for 5 min {you go by his age} then explain that his behaver will not be tolerated and lots of hugs. get him to tell you he's sorry for whatever he has done because time out is time for him to think about what he has done and be sorry for it another idea is place house rules somewhere makeing some of the rules are: NO HITTING NO LIEING and RESPECT OTHERS.im not sure if this is what your looking for but i wish you luck and as you can see i dont belive in spanking i think it teaches hitting is ok because if you hit then your telling your child that its ok to hit .good luck again

[SusanStiffelman]

Hi Supermom,

You laid out your dilemma beautifully. If only the answer were that clean and simple.

I'm a family therapist and have worked with kids for decades, so for what it's worth, here are my 2 cents.

What I've come to understand about lying in children is that it's fairly useless to try to directly ask them why they've tried to hide the truth, or to challenge them with the evidence that they're blatantly lying. You've pointed this out so well. The reality is (at least from my point of view) is that kids don't really know why they lie. They can come up with the usual, "I didn't want to get in trouble", but I'm always interested in looking underneath the behavior to see what's driving it.

There are lots of possibilities, but I'll just suggest a few: When your child lies, can you see any pattern in terms of being hungry, tired or feeling neglected or shortchanged on your attention? Many impulsive acts committed by kids happen when they aren't very in charge of themselves, in terms of hitting, etc. A little child already struggles to manage themselves, but a hungry, tired or jealous child is even less able. In my book and my work in general I talk about how parents need to be the Captain of the Ship in the child's life--in charge (not control, but calmly and confidently steering the ship.)

If you roll the camera backward from the time he lies about something, can you find clues that point to what his payoff would be? In other words, think of it like Jeopardy: If lying is the answer, what is the question? What is he gaining?

I would definitely not try the ever-escalating consequences game. Clearly it isnt' working. I also wouldn't put much stock into long, rational conversations. Instead, I would say something like, "Sweetie, you clearly felt like hitting your sister. What was happening there in the back seat?"

To the degree that you can keep your lips together and avoid interrupting him with things like, "Well, even if she touched you, it's no excuse to hit her!" you will hopefuly send him the message that it's safe to keep talking.

The more a child feels understood, the more willing they are to let you reach underneath their words and behavior to the feelings that drive them. If you can get a sense of what he's feeling that promotes the lying, you'll be better able to address the problem at its root.

Sorry for the long answer, but believe me, if I had more time I'd say a lot more!

Warmly,
Susan Stiffelman
passionateparent@gmail.com
www.passionateparenting.net