IS this all I get

[AnactualDAD]

Is this the only thing in you whole system that relates to fathers. FAIL ... no EPIC FAIL. I expect to see DAD section in your mag in the up coming issue writen by men for the issue men have with their children. DON'T BE A BAIS MEDIA!

[ewoods]

Welcome to the forums! Sadly, yes, this is all we get when it comes to being a dad. Fortunately, most of the other categories are just about being a parent in general. Feel free to post to those categories as well. We need all the dads we can get to actively participate!

Keep in mind that attitudes don't change overnight and we can't expect them to change just because we say they should. We're up against countless generations of no-show dads and the belief that parenting truly is the domain of the mother. Women began their fight for equality in the workplace decades ago, and we've still got companies like Walmart wrapped up in class-action lawsuits over gender inequality. Our fight for equality in the home is just beginning, and it will continue with our children.

In the mean time, try not to get too discouraged. Focus on what you can do to raise awareness. Try writing a letter to Parenting Magazine or their parent company Bonnier. A formal letter mailed to the editor or an executive has the potential to have a larger impact than a forum post that's unlikely to be read by an actual employee of the magazine. Then start working in your community. Talk to other dads near you about getting involved and maybe writing letters too. If your local hospital or community center has discussion/networking groups for mothers, ask them to set up a similar group for fathers. If they say no, let your local newspaper know about it, then start one yourself. Start publishing your own monthly newsletter or find entrepreneurs who might be willing to help you start your own small-circulation magazine for fathers, or better yet, for fathers AND mothers. Then talk to hospitals and pediatrician offices about distributing them in their lobbies.

Most importantly, don't be afraid to ask for help from mothers. In fact, they can be our biggest champions. I've never met a single mother who was opposed to men being more involved in raising children. Keep posting on the forums, and good luck!

[rjcraig]

It is frustrating to see so little attention focused on dads. but I try to keep in mind that websites and publications like parenting target moms because they are the ones who spend money on the advertisers' products. Dads don't. Still, as was mentioned earlier, there is plenty on this site that applies to parents in general.

I also keep my eyes open for other organizations and publications that do have a focus on male involvement. The National Parent Teacher Association has a lot of information on its website about getting men more involved in their children's educations (full disclosure: I work for NPTA). And publications like Examiner.com have local, father-focused writers contributing useful content aimed at dads (disclosure: I write about working dads for the Chicago Examiner). so there is stuff out there for dads...just takes some looking.

[ewoods]

I completely agree that it all has to do with advertising dollars. That's part of the problem. Advertisers market to mothers, fathers get the message that it's the mother's job to buy those products, so mom goes out and buys them, so advertisers keeping marketing to mom...

I can't think of a single baby product that is marketed to dads, yet off the top off my head I could list maybe a dozen products that are marketed straight to moms. Graco: Ask Moms Who Know. Kix: Kid tested, mother approved. Jif: Choosy moms choose Jif. Desitin: #1 choice of pediatricians and mothers. Safeway's entire generic line of baby products is collectively called, "Mom-to-Mom." Websites like Pampers and Babies R Us have sections for mom, but not dad. I once got a packet of coupons and parenting tips in the mail from Gerber that suggested I help my baby learn to identify faces by pointing out "mommy and baby" in a mirror.

Once upon a time, it was the mother's job to raise the baby. Maybe the vast majority of parenting is still done by mothers. But has it occurred to these companies that times have changed, and maybe if they advertise to mothers AND fathers, their sales might increase? Or at the very least, they won't repel fathers who might like to play a role in the purchasing decisions. Do you know how intimidating it is to be a new father trying to buy diapers for your son and surrounded by products covered with the word "mom" and pictures of women cradling their babies?!

I'll look into the resources you've suggested. I've already found (or created) quite a few resources myself already, but it can never hurt to have more.

[ContinuallyChad]

"websites and publications like parenting target moms because they are the ones who spend money on the advertisers' products. Dads don't."

Uhhhh. Okay, okay, I won't let that one get to me, because I'm sure that I'm in the minority here, but I'll speak up.

O.o

My wife doesn't do the spending. *I* do. *I'm* the one working, she's currently staying at home. So it's *my* money being spent.

I'll totally concede to the fact that she's doing more research than me right now, and she's doing a lot of the shots-calling in most areas of what we buy.

But it's totally all MY cash. Even my vacation paycheck. Gone into our daughter...

*sigh*

I'm gonna cling to at least 50 bucks outta my tax return once it's here...Daddy needs a new hard drive :D

[ewoods]

"I'll totally concede to the fact that she's doing more research than me right now, and she's doing a lot of the shots-calling in most areas of what we buy.

But it's totally all MY cash."

EARNING money is not the same as SPENDING money. Advertisers don't care at all how people GET their money, they only care about how they SPEND it. If you're making the money but she's making the purchases, then she's the one that advertisers are going to target. Even if you were making the money AND making the purchases, but she was telling you what to buy, she's still effectively making the purchases herself, which again means that advertisers are going to target her. Only if you were making the decisions yourself would they have any reason to pay attention to you.

Hard drive manufacturers, on the other hand, should definitely advertise to you. :)

[charliesmommy]

"websites and publications like parenting target moms because they are the ones who spend money on the advertisers' products. Dads don't."

Uhhhh. Okay, okay, I won't let that one get to me, because I'm sure that I'm in the minority here, but I'll speak up.

O.o

My wife doesn't do the spending. *I* do. *I'm* the one working, she's currently staying at home. So it's *my* money being spent.

I'll totally concede to the fact that she's doing more research than me right now, and she's doing a lot of the shots-calling in most areas of what we buy.

But it's totally all MY cash. Even my vacation paycheck. Gone into our daughter...

*sigh*

I'm gonna cling to at least 50 bucks outta my tax return once it's here...Daddy needs a new hard drive :D

This is a joke right?

[ewoods]

This is a joke right?

That's what I thought too. By the same logic, his wife could say that their daughter is hers and not his, because she's the one who raises her at home. Sort of diminishes the original message, doesn't it?

ContinuallyChad, if you want to make a difference, tell your wife that you'd like an equal share of the purchasing decisions. Start by boycotting products that use slogans that specifically target moms. For example, Desitin's slogan is, "#1 choice for pediatricians and moms." Burt's Bee's has several diaper cream products that I've found to be just as effective, plus they're more natural than Desitin and better for the environment, and they're devoid of mom-slogans. Their website does have a "Baby & Mom" section, but it's better than most since some of the products listed there are actually for expectant mothers (don't know of too many dads who need "belly balm").

Also, when you're picking out products, keep in mind that your child's well-being comes first. Sometimes getting the best product means buying something with the word "mom" printed all over it. You have to pick your battles carefully.

Lastly, If your wife refuses to let you be part of the decision-making, DO NOT under ANY circumstances say, "But it's MY money!" You'll quickly find out that she doesn't see it that way. A better approach would be to focus on your child and say, "But she's my daughter too and a good father doesn't just let the mother do all the work." If she's anything like most mothers I've met, she'll suddenly think you're the greatest dad in the world just for wanting to try.

[CaitlinClinard]

Yep!!! I think any man willing to spend time learning what butt creams are best for diaper rash (I love Burt's Bees and Balmex) but is actually going to use fantastic. I don't have the best experience with men and babies. My father never changed my diaper and neither did my brother's father. But I know that I am talking about and sharing of all the things our child will need us to do with my partner. He is an only child and the youngest of the cousins so he has never really had to learn to change a diaper or check a temp or even bottle feed a kid at three in the morning after working all day and having to do it again the next day. His willingness to do this with me with little resistance is unbelievably the best thing he could ever do to show how wonderful he is. Cutos to all of you for caring enough to want equality.

[ra11en]

My wife doesn't do the spending. *I* do. *I'm* the one working, she's currently staying at home. So it's *my* money being spent.

But it's totally all MY cash. Even my vacation paycheck. Gone into our daughter...

*sigh*

I'm gonna cling to at least 50 bucks outta my tax return once it's here...Daddy needs a new hard drive :D

This has GOT to be a joke.

A tip - save that $50, you'll need it for the divorce lawyer, alimony, and child support you'll no doubt be paying in the near future. Then you can really talk about how your EX-wife spends all YOUR money.

Grow the fu^k up you dipshi&.

I hate this forum, full of these kind of idiots. Unblievable.

I work outside the home, make more money than my husband, and NOT ONCE have I EVER looked at my paycheck as MY money, nor has he. It goes into an account for OUR family and household.

One more divorce heading to the raise the 50% statistic, that's just great.

And if not, by some miracle or addle brained dim-witted wife, count yourself a lucky lucky freaking man - well, maybe not because obviously she is married to a complete buffoon.

[ra11en]

Is this the only thing in you whole system that relates to fathers. FAIL ... no EPIC FAIL. I expect to see DAD section in your mag in the up coming issue writen by men for the issue men have with their children. DON'T BE A BAIS MEDIA!

AGREE AGREE AGREE!! This forum is all about mother's. Not just the forum, but the publications as well.

I'm a mom, so it's not like I'm a dad being biased either.

ewoods is correct that posting in the other areas that aren't Mom-To-Mom will get you more of a general parenting response, but that isn't a solution to the publication issue.

If it's any consolation at all - almost every mom on here recognizes what Parenting doesn't....the generation of dads today is sooooo different than what it was for our parents. Dads today are more involved, more hands on, more everything when it comes to raising children. You'll find a great group of women (minus trolls) that welcome a dads perspective and involvement, and recognize it as well.

Of course, that doesn't include the total moron you have posting above about his wife spending HIS money because he works OUTSIDE the home....since in his world, women that stay home to raise a family aren't actually WORKING to earn anything. Idiot.

[ContinuallyChad]

Huh. I made a splash.

ra11en - "I work outside the home, make more money than my husband, and NOT ONCE have I EVER looked at my paycheck as MY money, nor has he. It goes into an account for OUR family and household.

One more divorce heading to the raise the 50% statistic, that's just great.

And if not, by some miracle or addle brained dim-witted wife, count yourself a lucky lucky freaking man - well, maybe not because obviously she is married to a complete buffoon."

Really?

See, I'm (basically) the same way. I won't backpedal. I do see it as my money. I'm doing the Outside work and bringing in the Paycheck to Our House. She isn't going into work with me, and she isn't bringing home that paycheck. It's in my name, not hers.

Do I see it solely as mine or hers? Nope. But she spends it. Because that's where she's much better in our relationship than me.

That was more a gripe-y and bad day post than a way of life post, and if it infuriated you, I apologize. That was more just letting off steam. I value what my wife does quite a bit. It was simply frustrating that I'd finally gotten my vacation paycheck in and had maybe wanted to blow 50 bucks of it on something personal (which RARELY happens in the house, as it's either bills, or something both of us can enjoy), but instead I realized we need to prepare for our baby that's coming soon. Bummed? Yep. Some kind of crazed idiot? Not the least.

"Of course, that doesn't include the total moron you have posting above about his wife spending HIS money because he works OUTSIDE the home....since in his world, women that stay home to raise a family aren't actually WORKING to earn anything. Idiot."

Actually, no. That's not how I view things. I know she has the harder job, and I'll be the first to admit it. And once the baby's here it'll be even more complicated and difficult. I'm not a fool when it comes to this.

But being the sole provider, with a bi-polar wife who can't work out of a fear of the interview process and being judged unfit to work, and being at a less-than-fantastic paying job that we're LUCKY just pays the bills, it can get frustrating.

So before you go and assume my entire life based on a venting post, feel free to ask me anything else and I'd gladly explain myself or what I have said. I'm not afraid to answer anything at all.

Sorry that that post got you so worked up, honestly it was just a vent.

Hope you have a great day :D

[JohnMcG]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but I think this last sequence validates the original complaint.

Yes, we know it's taboo for breadwinning Dads to refer to the money they earn as "my" money. We know the usual tropes we're supposed to say -- "She has a much harder job than I have," "I wouldn't trade places with her for anything," "I have no idea how she keeps everything together." Am I missing any?

Still, it is frustrating to work a difficult job, get a sizable paycheck, and then find that, for example, I'm taping my glasses together because I can't afford to buy new glasses.

And we should be able to express that (particularly in a forum called "Dad to Dad" without having the Hounds of Hell unleashed on us and called every name in the book by mothers.

I guess what's frustrating is the asymmetry -there are no bounds on what women can say about their husbands, but the moment a father expresses his frustrations, he's a moron.

[Jayney]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but I think this last sequence validates the original complaint.

Yes, we know it's taboo for breadwinning Dads to refer to the money they earn as "my" money. We know the usual tropes we're supposed to say -- "She has a much harder job than I have," "I wouldn't trade places with her for anything," "I have no idea how she keeps everything together." Am I missing any?

Still, it is frustrating to work a difficult job, get a sizable paycheck, and then find that, for example, I'm taping my glasses together because I can't afford to buy new glasses.

And we should be able to express that (particularly in a forum called "Dad to Dad" without having the Hounds of Hell unleashed on us and called every name in the book by mothers.

I guess what's frustrating is the asymmetry -there are no bounds on what women can say about their husbands, but the moment a father expresses his frustrations, he's a moron.

Boo. Hoo. Boo. Hoo.

The only thing I have seen you do on this forum is whine.

[ABoysMommy]

I agree to a point John. But what if you BOTH worked outside the home? Would that make you feel better? Then you have to thnk that someone ELSE is raising YOUR kids. You're paying them to do it. So the added income that the wife is making is instantly spent on childcare to even allow her to work. So in the end, your financial situation is breaking even, and now neither of you spends much time with the kids. How is that better? Or you could always express your feelings to your wife. I bet she'd be happy to trade places with you briefly. I say briefly because I bet you wouldn't last long and you'd be anxious to get back to your "real" job.
The point isn't that you can't complain, but you don't have valid complaints. Your job isn't harder than your wifes and you don't have it worse. In fact, you said yourself, she doesn't even get paid for her job. She doesn't get vacation time or weekends and holidays off. No pension, no promotions, not even any real recognition. Even her own husband doesn't appreciate her role. How is that better than your job?
A man saying his money is HIS money is like the wife saying the kids are HER kids. He makes the money, so he spends it how he wants. She raises the kids, so she raises them how she wants. The husband gets no say in that, he's not the one doing the job. Its just as unfair when the tables are turned. Marriages are partnerships especially when kids are involved. Parents need to be equal teams and both sides need to realize that.

[ewoods]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but I think this last sequence validates the original complaint.

I completely agree that the name-calling was inappropriate and uncalled for. Yet I also disagree with ContinuallyChad's original message (and I'm a father too).

The argument or "vent" only serves to reinforce domestic stereotypes that some of us are working hard to try to break. He argued that since he did the work, the money was his and not hers. However, as I said in a previous post, by the same logic his wife could argue that since she stays home, their daughter is hers and not his. In addition, his original post was in response to a post about the reason for the mom-centric advertising in magazines such as Parenting. The frustrating part for me was that in his attempt to refute the fact that moms do the purchasing, he actually ended up VALIDATING the claim. He laments the fact that his wife does the spending for their daughter, yet he readily admits in his original post and in his follow-up post that he likes it that way.

Put it all together and what we end up with is a father who APPEARS to be resentful of how "his" money is spent, yet APPEARS to be unwilling to change the situation. I emphasize the word "appears" because I don't know him at all and I'm certain that he's a good dad who just needed to vent.

I completely understand the need to vent. I also completely understand what it's like to have no money left over at the end of the month for myself. It's part of being a parent, and being broke isn't exactly one of the "joys" of parenthood. What I don't understand is someone who vents their frustrations, yet is unwilling to do something about them. His original post was agitating for me because it's akin to a women in the 30's complaining that the job market is discriminatory but admitting that she doesn't really want to work anyway. If you're a father who's frustrated that the advertisers of kid-related products target mothers, then do something about it. That's why I attempted to be constructive and give him some suggestions on things he can do to make the situation less frustrating for him. His response was that he prefers things the way they are...

With all that being said, I appreciated the follow-up from him. It was unclear to me (and obviously to others as well) that he was just venting about the cost of parenthood. Now that he's clarified, his original post makes more sense.

[ewoods]

Double-post. Original post above this one.

[lonesomesmomma]

Wow! You "ladies" seriously need to cut these guys some slack!

This is IN FACT the dad-to-dad section. They can come and piss and moan about anything they damn well please. W/o fear of being chastised by a bunch of Mean cruel women.

He's there, supporting his child. And yeah sometimes it can get frustrating. Maybe...MAYBE he didn't word it well, but who can articulate something as such when you're frustrated.

Orignal poster (and all other dad's on this thread): I understand your frustrations and you shouldn't have to feel obligated to explain yourselves for stepping on a few womens toes. If these women cannot understand even the little things can get to us at the most random times...talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I hope things are going better for you.

[JohnMcG]

I agree that "venting" (or whining, if you prefer) is a (short) part of the journey, not a destination. You do need to transition from identifying the problem to finding solutions, and getting stuck on the problem doesn't get us to far.

Nevertheless, I think it is important to identify and give voice to concerns, and to have a safe venue to do that. Ideally one's marriage is a safe environment for that, or trusted friends. Perhaps it is unreasonable for me to expect a public Internet forum to be that.

[ewoods]

Now that I've had a chance to step back and go through this again, I've realized that I too was probably just venting, and I chose to vent at ContinuallyChad. I'm sorry about that.


Perhaps it is unreasonable for me to expect a public Internet forum to be that.

I think that might be a big source of my frustration, and possibly yours as well. I started posting on the Parenting.com forums because it seemed like an obvious choice for discussing parenting. However, it seems like it's also an obvious choice for a lot of other people as well. Hard to build a safe, trusting community when you've got 1100 active members (many of whom are spammers)...

Still, there are a lot of people who come here to vent or ask for advice, and I've got some great responses to questions that I've asked in the past, so I suppose it's better than nothing. I'll just try a little harder to be part of the solution, and not the problem.

[RayZorback]

it might help if our avatars weren't pink chicks. Just say'n.

[mjbnyc]

it might help if our avatars weren't pink chicks. Just say'n.

Yea, what is up with that?

[ewoods]

it might help if our avatars weren't pink chicks. Just say'n.

Avatars were recently fixed so that you can upload your own. The default is still the "pink chick", but I was able to create a "blue dude" as an alternative.

To change your avatar, just log in to the forums, click on User Profile, click Edit Avatar, and upload a small picture of your choosing.

[Joe the Man]

I also was wondering about all the pink chick dads.